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Venezuela

Tarkin

Member
Cronyism and a culture of corruption don't care about your ideologies.

It is easy to shit on socialism or communism or any other -ism but if your country/nation/whatever is not mature enough for such then you are shit out of luck.

Just look at all the fascist and semifascist regimes that toot their capitalism horn and are more or less cronyism ridden torture holes.

This is the guy that would have won the DNC primaries without corruption. He supports Chavez, read the bottom.
 

Eliar

Well-known member

This is the guy that would have won the DNC primaries without corruption. He supports Chavez, read the bottom.
Dunno we live in a timeline where the US president is a Russian stooge. Having an old socialist dude as the contestant for the US elections seems like small change in comparison.
 

Horton

Cat
Administrator
Venezuela is basically what you get when your populist government is retarded and has utter political dominance, the fact it was a leftist government doesn't make much difference, as the leaders were retarded. Using it as an attack is poor as "left" or "right" cover a large spectrum and cannot be considered homogeneous with policies, as was stated above. I suppose @Tarkin's argument is a little stronger, as it points towards support of certain styles of policies by certain politician, but Bernie Sanders is not the entirety of the left and defiantly not the entirety of Democrats.

You'd very see the US go to shit if you left the right wing Trump Republicans in charge and gave them unlimited dominance. I'm pretty sure a combination of the the guys spiralling the deficit, the increased levels of inflation caused by hammering up tariffs and the "audit the fed" shit could do that job nicely of replicating what happened to Venezuela. Most GOP people now have a cult like devotion to Trump as well, which is quite like Chavez, I do like how politics has become like a religion to some of these people and I think the fact it has become a religion is part of the problem in a lot of these places.

Overall the "Venezuela" talking point against all types of government intervention in the economy, seems logically flawed. It as to say, "Venezuela is in A", "A is in B", with A meaning "Socialism" and B meaning "Invention in the economy" and proceeds to then say "Venezuela = B". I think that would get you laughed out of logic class, don't you say? ;)
 
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Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
I don't claim to know all the facts concerning Venezuela, but the following train of thought does seem to be true.

Venezuelans are impoverished and going hungry.
World's biggest economy and neighbor to Venezuela places economic sanctions on her.
poverty and hunger intensify.
right wing Pundents "isn't Socialism horrible?"
I'd say it seems disingenuous, but I know for a fact that it is indeed disingenuous.
 

Chatokay

Self-proclaimed FiC official absinthe provider :)
Every kind of government is horrible, with the "right" individual at its head.
 

Horton

Cat
Administrator
The funny thing is, we don't have to attack anywhere to stop that shit, just station troops in Yeman and tell Saudi Arabia that'll we'll defend them against any aggressive attacks, completely defensively and they should fuck off.
 

Balerion

Well-known member
Without free trade, you wouldn't be able to post here... Or to use your phone, or a computer. Or pretty much anything that needs international trade... which is basically everything.
I'm pretty sure the trade unionists thrown out of helicopters appreciate that kind of sentiment.

Or i am certain about how species going extinct to make way for palm oil appreciate a few numbers on a spreadsheet
 
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Chatokay

Self-proclaimed FiC official absinthe provider :)
Why? Many countries have lasted without the free trade nonsense, that is just a globalist excuse to outsource workers to the Chinese.

There is a difference between free trade and trade thought.

and you want to follow the DPRK economic policy?
Even them need to import (from China) in order to survive.

No, I am the 'Murica hating Communism!
Yes, you are the 'Murica hating Communism!. THE. While he is only a 'Murica hating Communism!.
 

Arius

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure the trade unionists thrown out of helicopters appreciate that kind of sentiment.

Or i am certain about how species going extinct to make way for palm oil appreciate a few numbers on a spreadsheet
:rolleyes:

I'm not saying everything that's happening with international trade is always a good thing. Besides "Or i am certain about how species going extinct to make way for palm oil appreciate a few numbers on a spreadsheet" has a lot more to do with our methods of production than trade in itself. Whether you export 13 tons of bananas or 160, trade remains trade. The treaties, etc. in place don't change. International trade isn't something new either, it dates back thousands of years. When Romans bought product from Britannia (or vice versa), it already was "international trade". It didn't mean however that trade was wiping out entire species...

How we produce, our disregard for nature, the race for more profit and profit has a lot more to do with us than "trade". Free trade is something factual, it is merely the importation and exportation of various resources, it "doesn't concern itself" with the production methods per se. Trade doesn't even care if you're using camels instead of trucks, it remains "trade". The quantities we trade, or how we produce however varies among States. Hence why for example some States have a worse pollution footprint than others.

We can very well maintain free trade with more regulations for the preservation of the environment and nature. Some States are actually making efforts on that point. Trade and the protection of nature are not mutually exclusive. Unregulated production/exploitation of resources (oil, goods,...) however has serious consequences.

The problem isn't trade, it's how you supply your clients, how you produce to meet your exportations needs or projected growth.

"Trade" doesn't command you to abusively catch fishes in your net without consideration for the various species' survival, that's human stupidity and its need to sell more, more and more in order to make more money, to "meet expected growth projections".

Next time, do me a favor, don't try to put words in my mouth. Especially when you're talking about something fundamentally different.
 
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Eliar

Well-known member
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/venezuelas-guaido-urges-troops-to-rise-mass-protests-planned-idUSKCN1S60ZQ

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido on Tuesday made his strongest call yet to the military to help him oust President Nicolas Maduro, and violence broke out at anti-government protests as the country hit a new crisis point after years of political and economic chaos.

Several dozen armed troops accompanying Guaido clashed with soldiers supporting Maduro at a rally outside the La Carlota air base in Caracas, but the incident fizzled out and did not appear to be part of an immediate attempt by the opposition to take power through military force.
Guaido, in Twitter posts, wrote that he had begun the “final phase” of his campaign to topple Maduro, calling on Venezuelans and the armed forces to back him ahead of May Day mass street protests planned for Wednesday.
Welp bets on Maduro getting Gaddafied?
 

Wakko

Well-known member
So far it looks like a last desperate attempt. The military still stands with Maduro, and Guaido can't expect to walk free from this one...
 

Heresy

Well-known member
So far it looks like a last desperate attempt. The military still stands with Maduro, and Guaido can't expect to walk free from this one...
A damn shame, Guadio was the best hope for the country coming out in one peace from Chavez’s Bolivarian authoritarian bullshit. I hope the relatives I got in the country pull through.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
A damn shame, Guadio was the best hope for the country coming out in one peace from Chavez’s Bolivarian authoritarian bullshit. I hope the relatives I got in the country pull through.
Well, Maduro is a moron who couldn't govern a paid loo, but Guaido doesn't have popular support because he's seen as a US puppet (which he is). Neither of them is good for the Venezuelans.
 

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