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Venezuela

ScreenXSurfer

Ain't no bitch who can do it like me
I have a feeling this subject deserves a thread.

Who here is in favor of Juan Guiado? Why, beyond "he's not Maduro"

I'm trying to learn about this guy, the person the US & a bunch of countries across the globe decided is the rightful leader of a country.

Like I'm not in favor of Maduro obviously. But who the heck is Mr. Guiado?
 

ScreenXSurfer

Ain't no bitch who can do it like me
So Guiado was the leader of the opposition., a 'compromise candidate'. I never heard about him until last week. I wonder if reporting in the past about Venezeula ever covered him, or was the scoop just about Maduro because that's what gets the click.

I dont know much about maduro, what did he do wrong?
Human rights violations, arbitrary arrest, his jackboots opening fire at demonstrators, price controlled the economy into obliteration, said mean things about America, aligned himself with America's rivals, declared a state of emergency that expanded his powers, held an illegitimate vote to keep power...

I'm sure I missed a ton of things. Those are the cliffnotes over the past 2 years and the troubles go back further than that.
 

Gumbikhan

Well-known member
My point of view is that the whole American involvement currently is a distraction and sidestep by certain groups in office.

I mean I realize shit is going down there, something needs done, things need to be improved but they do in a hundred other areas of the world too. The difference being this one is closer and offers a birdie for people to follow instead of looking at other things some would like them not to.
 

Kinetic

Aw, you shouldn't have had.
his jackboots opening fire at demonstrators
For one, opening fire at protesters is neither good nor bad in itself, it just is. It doesn't matter who or where does such thing, the real questions are why, what means were used, how, what was the purpose. For two, you seem to believe that Maduro's jackboots and personnel of the police, military forces, paramilitary organizations and non-military organizations with significant useful potential are same shit, which has no bearing in reality.
 

ScreenXSurfer

Ain't no bitch who can do it like me
For one, opening fire at protesters is neither good nor bad in itself, it just is. It doesn't matter who or where does such thing, the real questions are why, what means were used, how, what was the purpose.
Please enlighten us. I would like to know the answers to those questions. Some of those questions appear to be redundant (why/what was the purpose - what means/how)

For two, you seem to believe that Maduro's jackboots and personnel of the police, military forces, paramilitary organizations and non-military organizations with significant useful potential are same shit, which has no bearing in reality.
You took a lot away from that small sentence fragment that you quoted.
 
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Kinetic

Aw, you shouldn't have had.
Please enlighten us. I would like to know the answers to those questions. Some of those questions appear to be redundant (why/what was the purpose - what means/how)
'Why' = what provoked(led to) the use of weapons?
'For what' = what objective is supposed to be accomplished by using weapons?

It must be understood that political protests are exceedingly seldom peaceful in nature, and they are never peaceful when driving force behind protest is pursuing objectives, accomplishing of which demands for destabilization of political situation in the country to considerable extent. Such protests are specifically tailored to spark violent confrontation with the police, as it facilitates the accomplishment of said objectives.

The idea behind the so-called 'peaceful protest' is to bait internal security forces into taking violent action against protesters by non-violent means and preferably, but not necessarily lawful methods, which naturally provokes public outrage(with everything this entails, he-he) and rallies the amorphous mass of protesters against common enemy. Like this.

This is suppressive action undertaken against the so-called 'student protest' in Kyiv, at 4AM on November 30, 2013. The protests started on November 21. In period from 21th to 30th of November, the biggest protest that took place November 24th had about 50 thousands of participants and did not present a credible threat to the regime. On the next day the amount of people participating in protests had skyrocketed up to 200 thousands, which resulted in this. To the surprise of absolutely no one who is familiar with applied oppression of the public retardation, the shit show has become a self-perpetuating, ever-escalating clusterfuck and things got only better and better from that point onwards. For politicians of the opposition, their sponsors and, of course, supervisors living in the places foreign.

Now to the weapons. Here's what has been happening on February 1st, 2014.



It does seem factually correct that the police has opened fire at protesters, right? Just like what has happened in Venezuela on several occasions! For example:

CUE HERD PUBLIC OUTRAGE!!!
 

Kinetic

Aw, you shouldn't have had.
Part 2, media limit per post is quite annoying by the way.


However, if you take a good look into what is happening on the video you might notice that in both cases the personnel of interior security forces is using less-than-lethal ammunition, which is special means specifically designed to discourage agitated citizens from continuing to indulge in public retardation without putting the domestic population of morons at risk of dying out.

The personnel of interior security forces does NOT use lethal weaponry on protesters without cause and legal grounds, end of story. Moreover, it is trained and obliged by both the law, service regulations and guidelines to prevention of civil disorder and practical riot control to consider lethal weapons and techniques presenting above-average risk of death and grievous injury to obstinate citizenry and bystanders as tools of last resort. I mean seriously, if riot police adopts the standard rules of engagement that apply in usual practice in a riot control action for whatever reason, it will result in... Well, if this ever happens in your immediate vicinity, i strongly advise to refrain from buying meat products and not order meat dishes or snacks in dubious places like some murky-looking street food vendor in foreseeable future, lest you suddenly end up a hardcore vegetarian for life.

The reasoning of the shooter(or commanding officer on whose orders he has been acting) may or may not have been right, the use of force may or may not have been justified, the use of force may or may not have been excessive. People do make mistakes all the time, in all things and decision-making on practical application of deadly weaponry is no exception to this. The thing is, even if his decision was not the best one, or he downright made a mistake(s), this is mistake of specific person, not the designated bloody tyrant of the week has ordered the goons of his to butcher the protesting population.

In reality the most effective weapon against protest is not a machinegun, but megaphone. This is what is the primary weapon of riot police, not batons, water cannons, tear gas or stalinwagen.

When uniformed people shoot to kill at the crowds, as it has happened in Syria at the beginning of what has later become Syrian Civil War, or in Ukraine during the Maidan-2, it means that someone is trying(and succeeding) at slaughtering them at the time. Which in turn means that 'peaceful protest' either exists only in your imagination(and bullshit that is dumped on you in prodigious quantities by the mainstream media, which exist for specific purpose of shaping your opinion in the right way, and it's not you who decides which way it is supposed to be), or someone has made an attempt to stir up the pond as first stage of fishing in the murky waters, as it happened in Ukraine.

Put simply, either someone among protested tried to kill the cops and/or soldiers, like it was in Syria, or... Well, if, or perhaps when you one day wake up to find that Langley has gone missing, ignore it. Just some quick testing of the theory that all evil in the world can be defeated if all good people get together and just kill off all the evil ones. Absolutely nothing to worry about.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
It is very suspicious that this US-orchestrated shitshow came exactly at the right time to minimize scrutiny of the humiliation Trump had to endure with the shutdown... Maduro is obviously a moron and his economic policies do not work, but instigating a nation to civil war is evil on a quite higher level.
 

t-dugong

Beach bum, Esq.
It is very suspicious that this US-orchestrated shitshow came exactly at the right time to minimize scrutiny of the humiliation Trump had to endure with the shutdown... Maduro is obviously a moron and his economic policies do not work, but instigating a nation to civil war is evil on a quite higher level.
It's a classic "Look, behind you!" ploy. A bit surprised to see the US of A of all people doing something so unrefined these days, though.
 

Kinetic

Aw, you shouldn't have had.
It is very suspicious that this US-orchestrated shitshow came exactly at the right time to minimize scrutiny of the humiliation Trump had to endure with the shutdown... Maduro is obviously a moron and his economic policies do not work, but instigating a nation to civil war is evil on a quite higher level.
Advancing the American interests with no regard to moral and legal constraints is meaning and essence of the CIA's existence. They always were, they are, and they will remain to be a bunch of blockheaded saboteurs that dabble in foreign intelligence.

Take note that not a single member of high-level leadership of the Venezuelan national security agencies and military forces sided with protesters and from the looks of it, the allegedly existing 'broad support' of the protest among the ground-level personnel of law enforcement and military forces of Venezuela exists only on pages of the Western media.
...
 

Wakko

Well-known member
Take note that not a single member of high-level leadership of the Venezuelan national security agencies and military forces sided with protesters and from the looks of it, the allegedly existing 'broad support' of the protest among the ground-level personnel of law enforcement and military forces of Venezuela exists only on pages of the Western media.
Yes, I'm seeing it too. It also seems that Maduro finally started taking advice from somebody, because he did the right moves to de-escalate the situation - not arresting Guaido, not pushing on the US embassy closure...

That song is great! John Lancaster... haha.
 

AbsoluteEpic

Well-known member
View attachment 1195

>inb4 america mercs his ass lol
We didn't really lead Libya... It was mostly Europe telling us that all the stuff they yelled at us about the middle east needed to be done in Libya and getting mad when we didn't even really feel like it.

Either way....

You're all way too hung up on the US part of this story. Venezuala has been an utter shitshow for years, people are fucking starving and fleeing the country. Most of South America already turned against Maduro. Mexico, Cuba, and Bolivia are the only current supporters of the current regime.
It is very suspicious that this US-orchestrated shitshow came exactly at the right time to minimize scrutiny of the humiliation Trump had to endure with the shutdown... Maduro is obviously a moron and his economic policies do not work, but instigating a nation to civil war is evil on a quite higher level.
The country is already breaking down on its own. Inflation was 80,000% percent in 2018. What you want the US to do, give Maduro hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment to keep him in power in the face of obvious discontent?
 

Wakko

Well-known member
The country is already breaking down on its own. Inflation was 80,000% percent in 2018. What you want the US to do, give Maduro hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment to keep him in power in the face of obvious discontent?
I think I wrote it pretty clearly. Hands off Venezuela, let them solve their problems on their own. That way if there will be civil war, at least it won't be on you for once.
 

Wakko

Well-known member
I'd argue that Venuzuela is looking at a civil war at the moment. Unless somehow negotiations between both sides actually pull through.
So far the opposition to Maduro doesn't have the means to wage a war against the government. Unless somebody arms it or Maduro does something pretty stupid that will get part of the army to turn against him, there's still a chance that this will be solved without serious loss of life. I've read somewhere that during the 2003 Iraq War the US has bought off some of Saddam's generals, that could also be a risk here. Ironically, they could use for it the Venezuelan assets they've blocked recently...

I'm waiting to see what China does. There have been some articles about Russia being exposed in Venezuela, but that's somewhere between $5 and $6 bln, and they have other means of protecting their assets. China's exposure is somewhere around $60 bln.
 

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