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The Trump-Russia Investigation Thread: Mueller Goes Terminator Edition

Reaction..

  • Huh?

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Seriously?

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • ... are we in some crappy technothriller?

    Votes: 21 72.4%
  • WTF?

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
seriously we need to start getting senate votes lined up for an impeachment, so we can prep walk this bunch
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
can we just arrest them now to stop on going crimes before they sell us all down the river for some shinny beads
seriously we need to start getting senate votes lined up for an impeachment, so we can prep walk this bunch
While I do agree with your sentiment, I disagree with your disregard for the bigger picture and the political reality of the situation. We can't go for Impeachment because of Mitch and the GOP in the Senate, that and it is too much of a singular point for the GOP to focus on. Right now the GOP can't multi-task, and going for an impeachment without all of our revolver cylinders filled with ammunition -in the metaphorical sense- is foolhardy at best. The last time a president has been impeached, the GOP didn't get what they wanted, and that is something that we must understand going forward.

Right now the best plan of action is to simply let the ~19 other investigations on Trump and Co continue on and keep the GOP's attention divided. They can't divide the resources to propaganda all of them that easily. As the Art of War says, strike where the enemy is weak while avoiding where he is strong. Right now the GOP's strength is it's focus, as such, we must divide that focus.

That and prepare for 2020.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
While I do agree with your sentiment, I disagree with your disregard for the bigger picture and the political reality of the situation. We can't go for Impeachment because of Mitch and the GOP in the Senate, that and it is too much of a singular point for the GOP to focus on. Right now the GOP can't multi-task, and going for an impeachment without all of our revolver cylinders filled with ammunition -in the metaphorical sense- is foolhardy at best. The last time a president has been impeached, the GOP didn't get what they wanted, and that is something that we must understand going forward.

Right now the best plan of action is to simply let the ~19 other investigations on Trump and Co continue on and keep the GOP's attention divided. They can't divide the resources to propaganda all of them that easily. As the Art of War says, strike where the enemy is weak while avoiding where he is strong. Right now the GOP's strength is it's focus, as such, we must divide that focus.

That and prepare for 2020.
this guy doesn't care about laws Aaron and if he goes down he will take us all with him, the longer we leave him in place the more people he will compromise, there are things that need doing beyond party, impeachment is that important
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
this guy doesn't care about laws Aaron and if he goes down he will take us all with him, the longer we leave him in place the more people he will compromise
Problem is that you keep ignoring the big picture and the political situation. If we simply stoop to the level of the GOP, then we're fucking screwed because the Dems don't have the ability, experience, nor infrastructure for it. The GOP has been playing this game for decades, the Dems haven't and the Dems can't simply magic up decades of experience and infrastructure overnight.

Just going in guns blazing is only going to make things worse for us both in the short and long run. The only way we can win right now is to play to our strengths and avoid our weaknesses, and those weaknesses is that we can't stoop to the GOP's level as we don't have the resources nor the infrastructure for it.

EDIT:

Basically, what you are proposing is playing right into the GOP's hands. They've been playing the propaganda campaign for decades with the Anti-Dem rhetoric. If we simply go and arrest them now, that'll get what people call the 'Goldfish Voters' the idea that everything that the GOP has been saying about the Dems is right and join the GOP. That is something we abso-fucking-lutely can't afford now.
 
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bluepencil

Indentured Artist
Author
So what's going on with the contempt charges? Anyone actually getting arrested or forced to testify?
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
So what's going on with the contempt charges? Anyone actually getting arrested or forced to testify?
That front is rather quiet right now, but then again the House might be going through the necessary steps to bring out inherent contempt which is a whole different ballgame than criminal contempt.
 

Lerticus

Senile Old Coot
Communism
So what's going on with the contempt charges? Anyone actually getting arrested or forced to testify?
The finger-waving has most certainly intensified!



Otherwise, we have learned the valuable lesson that placing all actualized authority under the executive branch means that the executive branch can just ignore whatever anyone else wants whenever they like. At this point all the House can do is threaten arrest (which can and will be ignored), issue fines (which can and will be ignored), stop payments to the contempt-bearing individuals (which can and will be ignored), or threaten to shut down parts of the government with their authority over spending (which one would hope would not be ignored, but these are above-the-law Republicans they are dealing with; also, being responsible for a shutdown is bad).
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
The finger-waving has most certainly intensified!



Otherwise, we have learned the valuable lesson that placing all actualized authority under the executive branch means that the executive branch can just ignore whatever anyone else wants whenever they like. At this point all the House can do is threaten arrest (which can and will be ignored), issue fines (which can and will be ignored), stop payments to the contempt-bearing individuals (which can and will be ignored), or threaten to shut down parts of the government with their authority over spending (which one would hope would not be ignored, but these are above-the-law Republicans they are dealing with; also, being responsible for a shutdown is bad).
No, it's just Congress going at the Speed of Congress. There is a lot of procedures and what not to go through in Congress, so it looks like nothing but there is stuff being done. Add to the fact that there has been a massive decline on media coverage in anything relating to Trump-Russia since the report came out...
 

Sergarr

Well-known member
this guy doesn't care about laws Aaron and if he goes down he will take us all with him, the longer we leave him in place the more people he will compromise, there are things that need doing beyond party, impeachment is that important
>believing that there are still people left to compromise

Good joke, mate.
 

Ravan

Gone
In the latest Trump news, he’s announced his intent to pardon US military accused of war crimes. Including a fellow so fucked up that his SEAL squadmates actually did things like sabotage his sniper rifle and deliberately give away their position to protect civilians from him.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
In the latest Trump news, he’s announced his intent to pardon US military accused of war crimes. Including a fellow so fucked up that his SEAL squadmates actually did things like sabotage his sniper rifle and deliberately give away their position to protect civilians from him.
if he holds to pattern this is a stunt he's going to walk back to clear the news cycle of the investigations and Bolton trying to start a war next week
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
In the latest Trump news, he’s announced his intent to pardon US military accused of war crimes. Including a fellow so fucked up that his SEAL squadmates actually did things like sabotage his sniper rifle and deliberately give away their position to protect civilians from him.
... and given that the military is very against this plan...

... we all know what happens if you can't appease the military...
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
They resign and surrender all authority to the elected government?

After all, that's what the oh-so-very-great General "Knife Hands" Mattis did.
From what I can understand, Mattis had very little choice at the time, if he didn't quit he would have been fired...
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Yes, that's what happens in democracies. You don't appease the military.
Yeah right, even in democracies you have to appease the military, given that your current government is thanks to a military coup all but in name.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Yeah right, even in democracies you have to appease the military, given that your current government is thanks to a military coup all but in name.
Nah, our current government was set up by a military coup in all but name and then followed to shit on any of the military who had hints of walking out of line. A few purges were done in the Sixties to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Plus, in democracies, militaries don't perceive themselves as some super special caste or whatever.

Don't worry, I understand it is so strange for you, but if you come and live in a democracy, you will understand it eventually. Your issue is that you need more freedom.
 

Baron Steakpuncher

Proletarian Puncher of Steaks
Author
Nah, our current government was set up by a military coup in all but name and then followed to shit on any of the military who had hints of walking out of line. A few purges were done in the Sixties to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Plus, in democracies, militaries don't perceive themselves as some super special caste or whatever.

Don't worry, I understand it is so strange for you, but if you come and live in a democracy, you will understand it eventually. Your issue is that you need more freedom.
Don't bully the americans Rufus.
 
New York Times: Trump Expected to Instruct McGahn to Defy Subpoena and Skip House Testimony

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Trump Expected to Instruct McGahn to Defy Subpoena and Skip House Testimony

New York Times said:
WASHINGTON — President Trump is preparing to instruct his former White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, to defy a congressional subpoena and skip a hearing scheduled for Tuesday, denying Democrats testimony from one of the most important eyewitnesses to Mr. Trump’s attempts to obstruct the Russia investigation, a person briefed on the matter said on Monday.
...
Since last month’s release of the 448-page redacted report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, Democrats have sought for Mr. McGahn to publicly give his account of Mr. Trump’s attempts to thwart investigators, figuring that his testimony would make for a dramatic hearing that could help galvanize public support against Mr. Trump.

Democrats are certain to be livid.
...
In a 2016 case involved a congressional subpoena for internal executive branch documents that had been described in a Justice Department inspector general report, another Federal District Court judge ruled that because the executive branch had already made public their “sum and substance,” Mr. Obama could not use the privilege to keep Congress from seeing the underlying files. But that case, too, was resolved without any appeals court ruling.
Source: New York Times

... Trump is trying everything he can now...
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
What happens when one of them tells Trump to pound sand and testifies anyway?
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
What happens when one of them tells Trump to pound sand and testifies anyway?
... then things get real interesting because quite a few of these people have been burned by Trump and would likely want their pound of flesh.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
So, it's going to happen aaaaaaany time now, right? Who wants to bet it will still be any time now after Trump ends his second mandate?
 

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