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The Trump-Russia Investigation Thread: Mueller Goes Terminator Edition

Reaction..

  • Huh?

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Seriously?

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • ... are we in some crappy technothriller?

    Votes: 23 71.9%
  • WTF?

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32
This situation is why I abhor conspiracy theorizing at this point in history, on either side. I say at this point, forget Russia, anyone stoking infighting amongst the Anti-Trump resistance is a fucking Trump asset. PERIOD
 
This situation is why I abhor conspiracy theorizing at this point in history, on either side. I say at this point, forget Russia, anyone stoking infighting amongst the Anti-Trump resistance is a fucking Trump asset. PERIOD
This approach has its own dangers. Shaming dissenters will not lead to a strong government with popular support.
 
So as it turns out the phone call transcript that was already dodgy as hell, was actually edited before it was released.

At least now we know why Trump ordered WH staffers to not testify in front of Congress.

Who knows what all those *talented,talented* stenographers would say.
 
So as it turns out the phone call transcript that was already dodgy as hell, was actually edited before it was released.

At least now we know why Trump ordered WH staffers to not testify in front of Congress.

Who knows what all those *talented,talented* stenographers would say.
Let's face it, most people already knew what was true and what was false. It was only a matter of what they allowed themselves to admit.

After all, we still have people here going "hurr hurr, peepee tape, dossier fake" when 1) Steele pointed to it as a report on intelligence from sources and not as absolute fact; 2) most of those facts were actually correct; 3) of the facts that were not confirmed, there also was not sufficient evidence to say that it was not possible. Hell, Ferris Mueller's report outlined repeated obstruction and he confirmed that if there were not DOJ policy in the way charges would be laid, but instead they are deniers that claim that nothing came from the investigation.

Some things were wrong or not confirmed, so these people treat every report of Trumpy doing something absolutely corrupt as part of the 2% of false reports rather than the 98% of confirmed events. When a whistleblower came forward and the IG reported that this is an urgent matter the sane realized that this is something real. Only the Trumpets who deny all reality that is not in favor of Dear Leader, and those with an ax to grind against the media outlets reporting the events, actually made a defense of Trumpy's actions. But again, it wasn't because people didn't know it was true, just that they refused to listen to what they found personally inconvenient.
 
Now that even the Washington Post has figured it out, can we please recognize this whole thing for the scam that it was, and MSNBC as anything else than Fox News for liberals?

Rachel Maddow rooted for the Steele dossier to be true. Then it fell apart.

In March 2017, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow invited Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) onto her show to talk Russia. She noted that in a House hearing, Schiff had cited the 35-page dossier of memorandums compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele. Ever since that document had burst into national politics — and surfaced on the BuzzFeed website in January 2017 — Maddow had closely monitored its reception.

Each time she addressed the dossier, she was careful to alert viewers that it was unverified. But she had espied some developments that appeared to support the dossier's nitty-gritty. So she asked Schiff: "When you cited … that dossier, should we stop describing that as an uncorroborated dossier? Has some of the information of that been corroborated?"
AD


Schiff sidestepped the question.
 
Now that even the Washington Post has figured it out, can we please recognize this whole thing for the scam that it was, and MSNBC as anything else than Fox News for liberals?
The Steel dossier is fantastic - it has damaged US politics in a way not even a billion Russian tweets could. It will be a cold day in hell when the Reps and Dems believe each other a single word. And meanwhile it has attained the exciting new status of "but...but... it hasn't been completely disproven yet!" :ROFLMAO:
It has helped to institutionalize lies as a lawful tool in Washington politics, gave people 2 full years of false hope and completed the creation of disjunct bubbles in the US political life. Steele should get the Hero of Russia medal, together with the morons who thought it a good idea to start basing FISA warrants on hearsay. Sooo much damage with sooo little effort... amazing.
 
Now that even the Washington Post has figured it out, can we please recognize this whole thing for the scam that it was, and MSNBC as anything else than Fox News for liberals?
That's an opinion column. Not the actual Post.

I'll also note that it's so easy to find that most of the Dossier was 100% accurate, that it has its own section on wikipedia, with citations and links.

It is not possible to defend Trump without lying. Assume anyone who does so is a liar about everything else too.
 
It is not possible to defend Trump without lying.
"My client is a victim of the education he have, or should have say rather, not received. he hasn't learned empathy, hasn't learned honesty, and more importantly is strongly lacking in cognitive capacities. How can we blame him for his acts, when he doesn't have the cognitive capacity, the empathy to understand the consequences of his acts ? "

See ? No lies, and I was able to defend him 😛
 
It is not possible to defend Trump without lying. Assume anyone who does so is a liar about everything else too.
Still this binary thinking... good luck with that. Keep the bubble strong ;)

I'll also note that it's so easy to find that most of the Dossier was 100% accurate, that it has its own section on wikipedia, with citations and links.
Ooooh, when it's on Wikipedia... but wait. On the "lying" part of your comment, this is what wikipedia says about that "most of the Dossier was 100% accurate" statement of yours:
Some aspects of the dossier have been corroborated,[19][20] in particular its main allegations: that Putin and Russia actively favored Trump over Clinton,[21][14] and that many Trump campaign officials and associates had multiple secret contacts with Russians.[22][23] However, many allegations in the dossier remain unverified, and one allegation against Michael Cohen was disproven by the Mueller Report using Cohen's own words.[24] The Daily Telegraph has reported that anonymous sources believe that Russian intelligence agencies may have sought to create doubt about the veracity of the dossier.[25]
Who's the liar? Oh right, you are.
The most sensational parts of the dossier - the pee tape and that Putin has some blackmail material on Trump, not a shred of evidence. Is the fact that the Russian government preferred Trump over Hillary an allegation? It's not, it is quite obvious and the reasons for it are quite obvious. And what's wrong with that? I remember when the US government has openly expressed preferences during election campaign in Slovakia. Not only that, it was clearly communicated to Slovak public what will happen if we won't vote "the right way." Therefore I say f**k your sanctimonious bullshit ;) Payback is a b**ch.

In hindsight, the real attack on democracy in the US was the Steele Dossier itself. Not because it damaged Trump, he deserves it, but because of how it radicalized political life. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional - not by Steele himself, he's just a tool willing to sell his name, but by his "anonymous sources" who have provided all the uncorroborated sensationalist bullshit that he was paid for so handsomely. It, and the way it was misused by the Dems and FBI did a real number on political discourse in the US. 35% of Reps and 45% of Dems would be unhappy about their child marrying into the other party? WTF is that, political orthodoxy? How do you even go back to sanity from this?

There's one more interesting thing about Steele's sources. It is just my opinion, but some of them could be Ukrainian SBU operatives. It is very unlikely that the SBU of 2016 would not try to undermine a US presidential candidate openly friendly to Russia. They've done worse things. And now that old corrupt structure built by Porky and his possy of maidan murderers is going down, brick by brick, and a lot of dirt is finding its way into courts and media. I think we'll see a lot of interesting things next year out of Ukraine, some of which may actually seriously damage anybody associated with the Steele Dossier ;) You see, Ukraine needs money, and since you're not giving it to them, they will sooner or later sell their secrets to somebody else. That's how Ukrainian politics (and almost everything else there) works nowadays.

A final question - are you not at all concerned about how much power do anonymous sources hold in current US politics? I would be really nervous about it if I lived there.
 
The Steel dossier is fantastic - it has damaged US politics in a way not even a billion Russian tweets could. It will be a cold day in hell when the Reps and Dems believe each other a single word. And meanwhile it has attained the exciting new status of "but...but... it hasn't been completely disproven yet!" :ROFLMAO:
It has helped to institutionalize lies as a lawful tool in Washington politics, gave people 2 full years of false hope and completed the creation of disjunct bubbles in the US political life. Steele should get the Hero of Russia medal, together with the morons who thought it a good idea to start basing FISA warrants on hearsay. Sooo much damage with sooo little effort... amazing.

I used to wonder how anyone could believe something like Pizzagate and now I know. Media cater to particular markets and tailors things to appeal to them. If you only watched MSNBC or to a lesser extent CNN, you would have had the impression that Russiagate was a sure thing, with evidence piling on evidence. Because that's what kept ratings high. You would literally never see or hear anyone arguing otherwise -- to do that, you would have to go to conservative or progressive media, and you would instantly disregard them as propaganda. So you had no clue of how shaky the whole thing was. (and how frankly ridiculous it looked to most people not part of that audience.)

People still don't. They can't accept that they were scammed by the media. Especially because that would mean that... uh-oh, fake news is real. Which would be a victory for Trump or something.
 
A final question - are you not at all concerned about how much power do anonymous sources hold in current US politics? I would be really nervous about it if I lived there.

Oh, American papers (and UK ones) are all about appealing to authority, saying "sources say", or "experts say".

People still don't. They can't accept that they were scammed by the media. Especially because that would mean that... uh-oh, fake news is real. Which would be a victory for Trump or something.
Scammed and pandered to. A lot of people forget that the media is a business with its own agenda and also that pandering to the crowd is good business.
 
Still this binary thinking... good luck with that. Keep the bubble strong ;)


Ooooh, when it's on Wikipedia... but wait. On the "lying" part of your comment, this is what wikipedia says about that "most of the Dossier was 100% accurate" statement of yours:

Who's the liar? Oh right, you are.

He's not a liar. He believes what he's saying. He believes what he's saying because he consumes media that lie to him. I.e., he's been scammed.

This was a scam by the DNC, Fusion GPS, and as-yet-unknown people in the intelligence services. Everyone knows that now except for people who get their worldview from MSNBC, which, since it is the propaganda wing of the DNC. is still running with it.
 
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