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The Tangent, Derail, and Argument Thread

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
An experimental thread for taking your tangents, derails, or petty arguments when any of the above wouldn't nessissery warrant their own thread.

The rules for civil debate are a bit looser here to encourage heated arguments where derogatory terms are used to naturally migrate to this containment thread.
 
Lord Inquisitor Adornable said:
An experimental thread for taking your tangents, derails, or petty arguments when any of the above wouldn't nessissery warrant their own thread.

The rules for civil debate are a bit looser here to encourage heated arguments where derogatory terms are used to naturally migrate to this containment thread.
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Can I derail this thread by making it a 100 pages thread focused on a single very narrow topic of discussion considered rationally and honestly by all participants?
 
Rufus Shinra said:
Can I derail this thread by making it a 100 pages thread focused on a single very narrow topic of discussion considered rationally and honestly by all participants?
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Yes
 
Rufus Shinra said:
Can I derail this thread by making it a 100 pages thread focused on a single very narrow topic of discussion considered rationally and honestly by all participants?
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1542127850584.png
 
Well, time for the first derail containment.

Heresy said:
If you cannot see how fucking stupid you are for equating something like Native Americans having their culture destroyed by being sent to boarding schools where they were beat for speaking their language and the civil rights movement under the umbrella of cultural genocide then you need some fucking help.
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What I'm saying is that the definition makes no distinction about type of cultural characteristics changed, nor do the more official definitions care about the kind of group it's being done to. Therefor, the forced removal of racism in the South counts just as much as the destruction of religions or the removal of a language among ethnic minorities. What the definition cares about is forced change of culture, primarily to remove distinctions the ones forcing change don't want, and this perfectly matches the bulk of civil rights movements in the United States. One group forcing its views on another to force cultural homogeneity.

This is a matter of pedantry, not morality. If you're going to say that removing things like racism from a culture doesn't count, then I'll retract my admission of supporting a cultural genocide of Palestine because the term then does not apply to what I want to happen. Because I specifically want the violent antisemitism/antizionism removed, because the desire to exterminate Jews, or a nation-state, is not acceptable in the majority of the developed world. It is generally accepted international law, in fact.
 
Morphile said:
Well, time for the first derail containment.


What I'm saying is that the definition makes no distinction about type of cultural characteristics changed, nor do the more official definitions care about the kind of group it's being done to. Therefor, the forced removal of racism in the South counts just as much as the destruction of religions or the removal of a language among ethnic minorities. What the definition cares about is forced change of culture, primarily to remove distinctions the ones forcing change don't want, and this perfectly matches the bulk of civil rights movements in the United States. One group forcing its views on another to force cultural homogeneity.

This is a matter of pedantry, not morality. If you're going to say that removing things like racism from a culture doesn't count, then I'll retract my admission of supporting a cultural genocide of Palestine because the term then does not apply to what I want to happen. Because I specifically want the violent antisemitism/antizionism removed, because the desire to exterminate Jews, or a nation-state, is not acceptable in the majority of the developed world. It is generally accepted international law, in fact.
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Well, if you consider racism to be an actual important part of southern culture that would make it effectively not exist by its absence, then I'm not really sure what to say.
 
@Rodyle needs the note that the conversation has moved to this thread.
Rodyle said:
He can see the difference, he simply pretends not to. That's the whole game.
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No, I'm caring about a completely different difference, or rather the lack thereof. I'm not arguing about the difference you are bringing up in the first place. I understand the stark difference in ethical qualities, but the definition of the term "Cultural Genocide", to the best of my knowledge, applies to both example cases. Nowhere does the definition exclude forced removal of prejudice. Nowhere does it exclude forcing the majority to change.

Ravan said:
Well, if you consider racism to be an actual important part of southern culture that would make it effectively not exist by its absence, then I'm not really sure what to say.
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I feel it was so in the 1950s, when Jim Crow was in full force, and much more so before the Civil War when slave labor agriculture was the pillar of their economy. It was literally part of the laws they agreed upon and how their society functioned, and the justifications were common belief. The entire point of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was to remove this prevalent view to force the South to match the North's sense of morals regarding race.
 
Morphile said:
@Rodyle needs the note that the conversation has moved to this thread.

No, I'm caring about a completely different difference, or rather the lack thereof. I'm not arguing about the difference you are bringing up in the first place. I understand the stark difference in ethical qualities, but the definition of the term "Cultural Genocide", to the best of my knowledge, applies to both example cases. Nowhere does the definition exclude forced removal of prejudice. Nowhere does it exclude forcing the majority to change.


I feel it was so in the 1950s, when Jim Crow was in full force, and much more so before the Civil War when slave labor agriculture was the pillar of their economy. It was literally part of the laws they agreed upon and how their society functioned, and the justifications were common belief. The entire point of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was to remove this prevalent view to force the South to match the North's sense of morals regarding race.
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Not really. Noone cared if they were still racist or not, just whether they could inflict their racism on other people.
 
Morphile said:
...Do you have anything at fucking all to back that up?
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That's how laws work. They don't ounish you for thinking, they punish you for what you do. Unless you'd like to show attempts at creating thoughtcrime laws.
 
Ravan said:
That's how laws work. They don't ounish you for thinking, they punish you for what you do. Unless you'd like to show attempts at creating thoughtcrime laws.
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The words you actually wrote very much express the view that the people didn't care ("Noone cared if they were still racist or not"), not the law. I brought up that Jim Crow laws existed to support my point that racism in the South was, at the time, an immensely important pillar of the culture that made it. I'm pretty sure all the speeches and rhetoric I've heard and read from the time were very much preaching against racism as a value.
 
Cultural genocide is such a loaded term. Any kind of cultural shift can be labeled as a cultural genocide if you squint & tilt your head hard enough.

You guys should move away from the buzzwords. If your real objection is that genocide is bad because people die, fair enough, but I'm 99% certain that's not Morphile's aim when cultural genocide gets mentioned.

You guys can quibble about the semantics of a word all week (as you have been) or you can decide to use other plain language to continue this discussion and actually try to understand each other. RIght now it looks like a dumb exercise in pedantry. Internet points over this nonsense is not worth wasting hours of your time.
 
Posting this here

Sarcobite said:
KILL THE MUTANTS!!!!!!
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Horton said:
what's wrong with Magneto?
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Sarcobite said:
Magento attemped to genocide humans like how many times now?
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Magneto is mostly right. It's telling that is default evil plan in most adaptations is to use magnetism to disable sentinels and reprogram them by swiping the categories of humans and mutants. Magnetos default evil plan is took human weapons and turn them against their users.

And remember in the Marvel universe humans are horrible. Their response to the X-Men saving the world repeatedly try to kill them. Mutants legally have no rights and in most countries can be enslaved or killed by humans on a whim. The USA government has politicians giving speeches about exterminating all mutants who are constantly reelected into office, and has repeatedly built armies of Sentinels programmed to exterminate all mutants and let walk around cities scanning for mutants and killing anyone who shows up as a mutant on their scan. And that's not counting the friends of humanity and the purifiers.

From an in-universe perspective humans have spent the last decades electing governments on the exterminate all mutants platform. The X-men reward for saving people is for the people they've just saved to try and lynch them while yelling about how all mutants should be exterminated. And these people know the X-men have saved the world several times, they just don't care.

The marvel universe is so horrible that Magneto comes off as the only sane person. He spends years trying to live a normal life, he gets identified as mutant and everyone tries to kill him. Mutants can't live in hiding because the government wants to find and exterminate them. He repeatedly builds new mutant only countries, who are repeatedly destroyed by humans who want to destroy all mutants. He's been left with no other option but violence since humans refuse to stop attempting genocide mutants, have been doing it since they discovered mutants and cannot be talked down or reasoned with. And he's right to be disillusioned with Xavier, since decades of seeking civil rights has accomplished nothing.

You used a Warhammer 40k meme earlier. Sadly the mutant side of the marvel universe is so legitimately grimdark that Magnetos has just a much of a right to go genocidal as the Warhammer 40k factions do, since marvel humans are really that bad.
 
Realmfighter said:
>Tfw pointing out that cops shoot black people even when they're not doing a crime way more than other people is racist

Relax lol
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It's that Rufus's statement is literally "he died because he was black". Every other factor is dismissed for an obsession with race dynamics. Which has a long track record of not fucking working. So stop fucking trying. The best job market on record for Blacks has been Trump. That's how completely racialized policy has failed in the US. Oh, sure, the graph clearly shows Trump just kept the Obama trend going... But when he's being called utterly incompetent, horrendously bigoted and, on occasion, literally not a valid President, the fact he has kept the improvement going is a damning counterclaim.

Only thing the racial policy has accomplished is turning minorities into partisan Democrats. They sure as shit aren't doing it because the Dems are doing a good job of things, jack shit got done to arrest Detroit's freefall, Chicago's education system keeps going down hill and San Francisco's refusal to allow high rise apartment complexes has given it the worst homeless situation in the country. A lot of hard-Democrat big cities seem to turn to shit, with San Francisco getting literally covered in shit.
 
You know what the best thing about being on Ignore is? They're still gonna see my post, they just gotta waste time clicking a button to do it. It's a little victory every time.
 
Rodyle said:
How was it a derail?
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You started to have an argument with @Balerion that spun off into it's own little thing. I told you two to stop it or take it somewhere else. You then proceeded to bicker off topic for three pages.
 
And again that was not off topic. That was about what should and should not be tolerated.
 
Rodyle said:
And again that was not off topic. That was about what should and should not be tolerated.
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How does this post
Rodyle said:
The mods of SB include at least two open homophobes one of whom is a trump voting jackboot. Fuck em.
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Have anything to do with the rough draft for a Frozen in Carbonite Site Charter?
 
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