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The FiC News & Politics Improvement Committee

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
Hello there.

I've been pondering my role on the FiC moderation staff and how best to chart the course for FiC's future as an obscure internet forum for some time now. My conclusion regarding what I personally can do and how to best invest my time and energy is that I need to focus on the News & Politics sub-forum.

I've been passionate about politics my entire life and I have a deep respect for the believes of others and their freedom of speech.

Now that that's out of the way I want to introduce the Fic News & Politics Improvement Committee. A pinned thread where we as a community can discuss the nature of this subforum and how to better archive it's goals. I don't claim to be the soul decider of what News & Politics should strive to be, but as I see it we have two objectives as of now.

  1. Facilitate debate between a diverse group of posters and their widely varied opinions and views.
  2. Encourage said debate to be constructive for as many parties involved, but not nessisserally nice or even civil. The goal should be for everyone to feel they got something out of the exchange and that their time wasn't wasted.
With that out of the way I'm opening the floor to you our community members to start discussion.

The Committee is in session
.
 

IndyFront

Hypershitlord
Author
Hello there.

I've been pondering my role on the FiC moderation staff and how best to chart the course for FiC's future as an obscure internet forum for some time now. My conclusion regarding what I personally can do and how to best invest my time and energy is that I need to focus on the News & Politics sub-forum.

I've been passionate about politics my entire life and I have a deep respect for the believes of others and their freedom of speech.

Now that that's out of the way I want to introduce the Fic News & Politics Improvement Committee. A pinned thread where we as a community can discuss the nature of this subforum and how to better archive it's goals. I don't claim to be the soul decider of what News & Politics should strive to be, but as I see it we have two objectives as of now.

  1. Facilitate debate between a diverse group of posters and their widely varied opinions and views.
  2. Encourage said debate to be constructive for as many parties involved, but not nessisserally nice or even civil. The goal should be for everyone to feel they got something out of the exchange and that their time wasn't wasted.
With that out of the way I'm opening the floor to you our community members to start discussion.

The Committee is in session.
Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...
That's a great idea. A distinction between entertaining posts and enlightening ones would defently be an improvement.
 

Chatokay

Self-proclaimed FiC official absinthe provider :)
Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...
Assuming of course there are no options for negative buttons.
 

Mark Poe

The majestic cock
Author
I think I have suggested this elsewhere, but how about a thread for the compilation of various members' inside jokes and particular quirks in rhetoric, of course being a purely voluntary thing where people post their own quirks for review (and not other people's). Entries would be put in spoilers of course (jokes tend to lose their effect if already shown, as with quirks losing their magic). Of course mods will still have the final say if the jokes/quirks are kosher for the forum or not.

It'll probably avoid a purge of humor & satire sometime in the forum's future...
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
You'll probably have to make a separate set of rules for the politics forums here, with suspension of all posting rights (including likes/informatives/what-have-you) for a period of time... but that'll likely require you to use the infraction point system as well...
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
I think I have suggested this elsewhere, but how about a thread for the compilation of various members' inside jokes and particular quirks in rhetoric, of course being a purely voluntary thing where people post their own quirks for review (and not other people's). Entries would be put in spoilers of course (jokes tend to lose their effect if already shown, as with quirks losing their magic). Of course mods will still have the final say if the jokes/quirks are kosher for the forum or not.

It'll probably avoid a purge of humor & satire sometime in the forum's future...
What would the point be? Is it so the staff can approve these jokes so you won't be infracted later down the road if nessissery?

You'll probably have to make a separate set of rules for the politics forums here, with suspension of all posting rights (including likes/informatives/what-have-you) for a period of time... but that'll likely require you to use the infraction point system as well...
Why would I suspend posting rights? I want to encourage you to post not the other way around.
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
There are only two ways that rules work: being examples and making them. You've got to have the ability to do both.
Punishment doesn't nessistate the disregard of rights. In fact it is counter productive to do so.

I need to enforce boundaries with acceptable behavior on one end and infractible behavior on the other.

Punishing posters willy nilly just blurs this line and confuses posters.
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
Exactly. Although it's more of a long term thing to prevent new mods from suddenly going full hardass on previously acceptable forum culture
I agree a way to set precedent is nessissery.

A lot of reports the staff gets are discussed at length and while we do come to a consensus these rulings aren't cataloged anywhere.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Punishment doesn't nessistate the disregard of rights. In fact it is counter productive to do so.

I need to enforce boundaries with acceptable behavior on one end and infractible behavior on the other.

Punishing posters willy nilly just blurs this line and confuses posters.
I said we've got to make a system that uses both. i.e. the Rules are an example of what to do and the Rules make examples of those that break them.
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
I said we've got to make a system that uses both. i.e. the Rules are an example of what to do and the Rules make examples of those that break them.
Would you say that the FiC staff aren't currently practicing this behavior well enough or are you merely pointing out that this is a nessissery element of an effective moderation staff so it is not forgotten or discarded.

Honest question Aaron.
 

Baron Steakpuncher

Proletarian Puncher of Steaks
Author
Perhaps SV's method of deciding punishments (voting and a little faux-trial thing where accused can debate rules in their defence before "judges" decide on whether to keep or lower punishment), nothing quite so complex but merely having a second voice on any permament bans might be an idea (and we could elect one or two people for that position)
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
Perhaps SV's method of deciding punishments (voting and a little faux-trial thing where accused can debate rules in their defence before "judges" decide on whether to keep or lower punishment), nothing quite so complex but merely having a second voice on any permament bans might be an idea (and we could elect one or two people for that position)
I have complicated thoughts on this idea Baron.

On one hand I think more democracy is almost always a good thing (maybe not the most effective thing though). On the other I think SV's fetish for RPing as lawyers leads to an unwarranted sense of self seriousness and an inflated sense of importance and power that is ultimately unhealthy for the site and its members.

Ultimately when it comes down to it internet forums like SB, SV, and FiC are autocratic entities with the site owner as the supreme authority. Any form of democracy is ultimately at the behest of Horton and our "courts" kangaroo in nature.

As long as Horton has sole ownership of FiC it's impossible to put any checks to balance his power and leverage some forum of democracy.

Hypothetically the community can pressure the staff to change by voting with their feet so to speak and to that end I agree with @ScreenXSurfer that transparency is vital to the wellbeing of the site.

I just don't know about working votes into the day to day operation of the site.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Would you say that the FiC staff aren't currently practicing this behavior well enough or are you merely pointing out that this is a nessissery element of an effective moderation staff so it is not forgotten or discarded.

Honest question Aaron.
It's the necessary element of effective moderation staff that CAN NEVER BE FORGOTTEN OR DISCARDED. That would also mean that the Staff will also have to have their own system of rules that are specific to them and them alone with even the creator being subject to them.
 

In Exile

Member
You can't have a healthy forum if users are posting racism, Nazi apologetics, etc or trying to act like they're doing it 'ironically' or purposefully being disruptive. From what I've seen there needs to be stricter enforcement of Rule 5 (enforced by moderators who actually know what it is) and a crackdown on shitposting.

Tolerating bigotry, fascism, etc. is not the way to go.
To quote Karl Popper:
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

And for those who will try to make a snappy comeback instead of actual arguments:
https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65
 

Ravan

Gone
You can't have a healthy forum if users are posting racism, Nazi apologetics, etc or trying to act like they're doing it 'ironically' or purposefully being disruptive. From what I've seen there needs to be stricter enforcement of Rule 5 (enforced by moderators who actually know what it is) and a crackdown on shitposting.

Tolerating bigotry, fascism, etc. is not the way to go.
To quote Karl Popper:
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

And for those who will try to make a snappy comeback instead of actual arguments:
https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65
Oddly enough this matches up with what I said way back in the thread about adding a bad faith rule, and what the mods of RPG.net said when banning trump support. You either have a place where bigots have free speech, or you have a place where people who aren’t bigots actually stick around.
 

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