ScreenXSurfer
Ain't no bitch who can do it like me
I still have zero clue why the EU is involved in this Irish situation. It should be settled between the Irish & N. Irish people.
The Republic of Ireland has already made its position pretty clear. That position being "Fuck You, Britain". Basically, if Britain wants control of its borders, it must withdraw from the Good Friday agreement, and accept that they've literally invited terrorists to murder their citizens.I still have zero clue why the EU is involved in this Irish situation. It should be settled between the Irish & N. Irish people.
Noone is hoping that happens. We are just resigned to the fact that Little Englanders hate foreigners more than they love their fellow Brits.It boggles me that 20 years of peace in a region is in danger because of bureaucracy. When I asked about this a few months ago, people tell me it's because the EU is trying to make this painful as possible on the UK and I was disgusted that literally "terrorist are going to murder citizens" is on the table because of this. And people are HOPING that happens.
Well that's British aristocracy. They're not used to not having things their way.What does she have to offer in exchange? I mean really do they even understand they are asking for things with value and offering nothing in exchange, is begging what brexitiers are reduced to?
Nobody normal hopes that it happens. But not leaving the Irish once again to the tender mercies of the British is part of responsibilities of the EU. Separating N.Ireland from either Ireland or UK will be trouble, I guess nobody thought about that when they voted for Brexit. This is not on the EU.It boggles me that 20 years of peace in a region is in danger because of bureaucracy. When I asked about this a few months ago, people tell me it's because the EU is trying to make this painful as possible on the UK and I was disgusted that literally "terrorist are going to murder citizens" is on the table because of this. And people are HOPING that happens.
I'll give you a couple of clues, one of the many, many parts of the issue: Ireland is within a free movement area with most of the rest of the EU for goods, people and services. Whatever enters Ireland enters Germany, Greece, France, Spain, etc. Therefore, no single country is entilted to negociate for the access to the free movement zone. It's the entire zone, AKA the EU, that negociates, unless Ireland wishes to leave the Union. Something to which 90+ % of the Irish, being much smarter than the Brits, say 'Fuck No!' to, making the issue an European one. Oh, and frankly, because the Ireland issue needed the EU to get to a point where the shootings and bombings stopped, being unable to reach that point on their own.I still have zero clue why the EU is involved in this Irish situation. It should be settled between the Irish & N. Irish people.
Except that the only reason for this to happen is the EU letting it happen, because it has peacekeeping forces and, more importantly, an unholy assload of asterisks setting a precedent of immense accommodations for the wellbeing of the continent. Why does the Good Friday agreement have to end? What, because Britain is leaving the single market, or decided to have independent border control? Why can't these things be handled separately? Why can't the UK have a soft-but-enforcable border with the Republic of Ireland, or cede Norther Ireland, or set up border controls between North Ireland and Great Britain?Noone is hoping that happens. We are just resigned to the fact that Little Englanders hate foreigners more than they love their fellow Brits.
Except the situation is actually the opposite, with the UK largely demanding a No Deal thanks to May's horrible leadership and the EU trying to force the previous spectacularly horrible deal on them.It's very, very sad to see that the Brits have been utterly failing to understand that the salami tactics do not work against the EU. The British Parliament can vote with absolute unanimity against a No Deal, but a No Deal it will have unless it offers a deal that the EU deems acceptable.
Do you have to use 500 words to say the 5 you want?Except that the only reason for this to happen is the EU letting it happen, because it has peacekeeping forces and, more importantly, an unholy assload of asterisks setting a precedent of immense accommodations for the wellbeing of the continent. Why does the Good Friday agreement have to end? What, because Britain is leaving the single market, or decided to have independent border control? Why can't these things be handled separately? Why can't the UK have a soft-but-enforcable border with the Republic of Ireland, or cede Norther Ireland, or set up border controls between North Ireland and Great Britain?
All this doom and gloom ultimately requires the EU to let it happen. Because there's multiple agreements able to be made to deal with every single problem you expect. The UK could establish trade agreements to take effect immediately upon exiting the EU, maintaining economic function seamlessly, even if there's some damage due to complications with the continental market. If there's a humanitarian disaster as a result of the cutoffs? That's on your side, because your lot predicted it would happen, and refused to accept negotiation to resolve these issues. You're blaming the UK citizenry for the damage you expect will happen to Ireland, so it stands to reason that it's perfectly acceptable to blame the Europhiles for the situation happening in the first place, because they knew it'd happen and refused to offer alternatives that'd respect the wishes of the British public.
The argument that this is demanding the benefits without the drawbacks is you being a spiteful bastard, because you're fully admitting to knowing that not taking some measures will lead to widespread suffering and numerous deaths, and yet refuse the option of bridging that gap before it goes bad. You are advocating for the damage as punishment for the British people daring to want to actually determine how their country functions without the French and Germans being in the way, who have radically different values and needs while outnumbering the UK. The Brexit people just want to be able to tell immigrants no without the EU getting in the way, while you're demanding they suffer punitive consequences from not compromising a single fucking thing to ensure the safety of the population.
There doesn't need to be the EU's specific open borders and market. Other ways of handling it exist. How else do you explain the automotive industry working the way it does, with parts from numerous separate markets being necessary to make the final product? Free trade isn't a requirement, and the point of Brexit is to be able to tell the increasingly problem-causing immigrants to fuck off because the British public don't want them there. Your statement is assuming that the Brexit voters actually understood all these consequences, and knew that spiteful bastards like you would stonewall any and all attempts at coming to alternative solutions. You are, frankly, assuming vastly too much competence from public voters, on top of assuming malice.
There don't need to be open borders, there just needs to be easy travel between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and this can be just a simple border check that takes about a minute, turning away people who aren't in some pre-decided group (likely Irish citizens). There doesn't need to be free trade, there just needs to be market access, and the EU's free trade comes with a ludicrous amount of mandated economic restrictions. Such as the flat-out ban of any GMO products for human consumption.
Except the situation is actually the opposite, with the UK largely demanding a No Deal thanks to May's horrible leadership and the EU trying to force the previous spectacularly horrible deal on them.
Edit:Generally, Remain voters were more high-class, younger, more educated and not born in the UK. Brexit is the working class position, held by people with less education and more hardship. Expecting them to both know all these problems and think they'll be worse than the 2008 market crash, and earlier economic recessions, that they'd made it through before, is rather asinine. There's quite a few people who feel the damage is a price worth paying.
Lol. Now, if we leave your silly fanfiction and get back to the real world, the EU can't force a deal if UK wants to go no deal and commit economic suicide. We'll just look sadly at the Brits when they actually cut themselves from the logistics needed for their industry and supermakets to remain supplied.Except the situation is actually the opposite, with the UK largely demanding a No Deal thanks to May's horrible leadership and the EU trying to force the previous spectacularly horrible deal on them.
Yes, we knew already that the Leave voters did not know what the hell they were getting themselves into, that's old news. They'll just be the ones to pay for the lies of their Eton-educated masters who actually have foreign passports too and have already stated that they'll get the fuck outGenerally, Remain voters were more high-class, younger, more educated and not born in the UK. Brexit is the working class position, held by people with less education and more hardship. Expecting them to both know all these problems and think they'll be worse than the 2008 market crash, and earlier economic recessions, that they'd made it through before, is rather asinine. There's quite a few people who feel the damage is a price worth paying.
The Red Coats do not have the proper visas. They'll need to wait in line at the French border.Enough with Brexit. Expand empire, BritEntrance, Hostile takeover of europe.
We're in the EU, France doesn't check for visas or passports :^)The Red Coats do not have the proper visas. They'll need to wait in line at the French border.
EU =/= Schengen Area.We're in the EU, France doesn't check for visas or passports :^)
Well, income inequality leads to all kinds of stupid games and stupid prizes. Brexit, Trump, semi-fascists gaining seats in legislature all over Europe - that's all the result of significant parts of population not behaving rationally because they a) don't have access to objective information, and b) their bad situation, anger and fear are used to manipulate them. Let that be a lesson to all of us - we all are parts of one society and hardships of our fellow citizens are our problem, too. If the wealthier, better educated part of society laughs at the less fortunate part it gets what it deserves. That's the beauty of democracyGenerally, Remain voters were more high-class, younger, more educated and not born in the UK. Brexit is the working class position, held by people with less education and more hardship. Expecting them to both know all these problems and think they'll be worse than the 2008 market crash, and earlier economic recessions, that they'd made it through before, is rather asinine. There's quite a few people who feel the damage is a price worth paying.
Oddly enough, both A and B are kind of interlinked, as if they're being worked to death at stupid long hours, which is the case with quite a few Americans I've known...they're not going to get time to look at that information, even if they do have access to it, as that takes effort that they're unlikely to want to spend on studying. They're just going to look at the parties and pick which ones seem to be offering a better life and a way out, but often due to the complex nature of politics and economics, things aren't that simple...Well, income inequality leads to all kinds of stupid games and stupid prizes. Brexit, Trump, semi-fascists gaining seats in legislature all over Europe - that's all the result of significant parts of population not behaving rationally because they a) don't have access to objective information, and b) their bad situation, anger and fear are used to manipulate them.
You're assuming the Left is correct. I disagree.Well, income inequality leads to all kinds of stupid games and stupid prizes. Brexit, Trump, semi-fascists gaining seats in legislature all over Europe - that's all the result of significant parts of population not behaving rationally because they a) don't have access to objective information, and b) their bad situation, anger and fear are used to manipulate them. Let that be a lesson to all of us - we all are parts of one society and hardships of our fellow citizens are our problem, too. If the wealthier, better educated part of society laughs at the less fortunate part it gets what it deserves. That's the beauty of democracy
Riiiiight. It's been decades pundits explain us the EU is always on the verge of collapse. What was the saying? One good kick in the door and the rotten house will collapse? *rolls eyes*When It comes to Brexit, I'm wondering why people thing the EU has anything to offer the UK, anyway? As best I can tell, given how things are going across the EU, it's on the verge of collapse anyway. The UK should get out while the getting's good.
And here we have Dunning-Kruger in action.The " wealthier, better educated part of society" includes my little sister, who has a degree, when I do not. Her actual understanding, however? Not so good.
They simply don't understand that they can't impose their way to the EU anymore.What does she have to offer in exchange? I mean really do they even understand they are asking for things with value and offering nothing in exchange, is begging what brexitiers are reduced to?
As the duck said, because Ireland is in the EU, and as such we will support them.I still have zero clue why the EU is involved in this Irish situation. It should be settled between the Irish & N. Irish people.
Nope, the UK government is actually making it as painful as possible for its citizens. Not even trying, actually doing everything they can to make it happens. The EU made several proposals to avoid this, that were rejected by the Brits.It boggles me that 20 years of peace in a region is in danger because of bureaucracy. When I asked about this a few months ago, people tell me it's because the EU is trying to make this painful as possible on the UK and I was disgusted that literally "terrorist are going to murder citizens" is on the table because of this. And people are HOPING that happens.
Oh yes, just like you would let someone take a bullet because you didn't step in front of them to take it in their stead. Seriously…Except that the only reason for this to happen is the EU letting it happen
Because DUP and Tories want it to end, not the EU. On the contrary the EU made proposals to keep it, proposals that were rejected by, guess who ? The Dup and brexiters.Why does the Good Friday agreement have to end?
How ?Why can't the UK have a soft-but-enforcable border with the Republic of Ireland
Maybe because neither the DUP nor the brexiters want it ?or cede Norther Ireland, or set up border controls between North Ireland and Great Britain?
Again, no. An agreement was reached, and then was rejected by the British parliament. They are the one, not only letting it happen, but actively making it happen.All this doom and gloom ultimately requires the EU to let it happen
Such as ?Because there's multiple agreements able to be made to deal with every single problem you expect
They tried, with non-EU countries, care to remind us how it went ?The UK could establish trade agreements to take effect immediately upon exiting the EU
Again, nope. Your government is the sole responsible. It is it who decided to activate Article 50, for the benefit of a minority of the UK people. It is it who decided to not make any concessions. It is it who rejected an accord that was the best for both parties involved, just because they wanted everything, while giving nothing.If there's a humanitarian disaster as a result of the cutoffs? That's on your side, because your lot predicted it would happen, and refused to accept negotiation to resolve these issues.
They did vote for Brexit, so yes, they are responsible.You're blaming the UK citizenry for the damage you expect will happen to Ireland
Negotiations are about compromises, something that the UK refused to understand. Now, they pay the price, it is sad for the majority who didn't vote for this mess, but it is on the sole responsibility of your government.so it stands to reason that it's perfectly acceptable to blame the Europhiles for the situation happening in the first place, because they knew it'd happen and refused to offer alternatives that'd respect the wishes of the British public.
We tried to bridge the gap, numerous times. Only to have the Brits refuse, or for them to demand for everything without giving anything in return. Face the truth, you're not in a position to make diktats anymore.The argument that this is demanding the benefits without the drawbacks is you being a spiteful bastard, because you're fully admitting to knowing that not taking some measures will lead to widespread suffering and numerous deaths, and yet refuse the option of bridging that gap before it goes bad.
We don't need to, your government is doing it quite well.You are advocating for the damage as punishment for the British people
They can already, they can check who enter their frontiers, as thy are not in Schengen.The Brexit people just want to be able to tell immigrants no without the EU getting in the way
We're not, it is simply a consequences of their actions, something they were told would happen.while you're demanding they suffer punitive consequences from not compromising a single fucking thing to ensure the safety of the population.
As such ?There doesn't need to be the EU's specific open borders and market. Other ways of handling it exist
It is if you want to get the advantages that come with it.Free trade isn't a requirement
No one forced them to believe the lies Leave told them. No one forced them to reject any sane and logical statement after Brexit. They may have not understood, which is very likely, but they chose to not understand, they refused to understand.Your statement is assuming that the Brexit voters actually understood all these consequences
So, a border.here don't need to be open borders, there just needs to be easy travel between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and this can be just a simple border check that takes about a minute
There will be, just with customs checks and import taxes.There doesn't need to be free trade, there just needs to be market access
enerally, Remain voters were more high-class, younger, more educated
Which give more strength to the idea that leavers didn't knew what they were doing. And since they stil don't know…Brexit is the working class position, held by people with less education
They were told, they chose to ignore all the warnings, they can't come and whine now.Expecting them to both know all these problems and think they'll be worse than the 2008 market crash, and earlier economic recessions, that they'd made it through before, is rather asinine
Ah yes, any days now, after all, it's been only decades europhobes are saying this…As best I can tell, given how things are going across the EU, it's on the verge of collapse anyway
In my country (Slovakia) and in most of EU health care insurance is both compulsory and 100% solidarity-based, meaning that everybody pays according to their means and draws according to their needs. So if you make a lot of money then yes, you're being screwed out of it probably more than would be necessary. But you still have a lot. And if you're one of the less fortunate then you actually benefit from the system - you pay a little and you get the same health care as those who pay much more. So in your case, when doing a lower-paid physical job, you would benefit from our kind of UHC.You're assuming the Left is correct. I disagree.
One thing that changes somebody's perspective, in my experience, is working in a very practical, physical, job. It told me that everything costs. Everything. And, if I couldn't see where I was paying, I was being screwed. So, when I'm offered "Free" Healthcare, or Welfare, I know it's a scam.
And it's actually much more efficient in terms of spent money:In my country (Slovakia) and in most of EU health care insurance is both compulsory and 100% solidarity-based, meaning that everybody pays according to their means and draws according to their needs. So if you make a lot of money then yes, you're being screwed out of it probably more than would be necessary. But you still have a lot. And if you're one of the less fortunate then you actually benefit from the system - you pay a little and you get the same health care as those who pay much more. So in your case, when doing a lower-paid physical job, you would benefit from our kind of UHC.
Also, you can see what and where you're paying, to the last cent. You just can't decide not to pay.
As for the whole Irish part of this debate, I'm aware that there aren't that many Irish in Ireland, so they're not going to do much. Many immigrants, who won't care.
I didn't realize 84.5% of the population means Irish people aren't the majority in their own country. Sure, there's only about 5 million people in Ireland but all that means is that the population is not that dense compared to the UK.
If you want to be technical then speakers of "Irish" Gaelic (we should probably just call it gaelic at this point) ARE a minority in their own country. Last monoglot died in the 90's and I think only 5-10% use it as a everyday language.