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UK Politics The Brexit thread (or All -not- quiet on the western front)

Until proven otherwise, I would suggest to always consider such a post as sarcasm. That will do wonder with your sanity. :)
Well, ok, I don't like it but at this point I've got too many insanity inducing things on my plate already...
 
Brexit didn't need Russia to make it a hilarious fuck up, British politicians are quite capable of doing that by themselves
Here's the thing, the heads of Brexit are actually undergoing their own Trump-Russia style inquiry right now... and given the information we've got for Cambridge Analytica and the fact this has been shaping up to be a complete shitshow...
 
Here's the thing, the heads of Brexit are actually undergoing their own Trump-Russia style inquiry right now... and given the information we've got for Cambridge Analytica and the fact this has been shaping up to be a complete shitshow...

The facts are pretty simple, one side lied a lot, the other side had no clue what it was actually doing. That's pretty much it, it doesn't need to be the result of a grand conspiracy, it is the result of lies and obfuscation.
 
The facts are pretty simple, one side lied a lot, the other side had no clue what it was actually doing. That's pretty much it, it doesn't need to be the result of a grand conspiracy, it is the result of lies and obfuscation.
Yeah, no. While not some grandous conspiracy like in novels, Brexit is raising eyebrows given the reveal that Cambridge Analytica has some pretty prominent ties to Russian oligarchs and Putin. Given that Cambridge came to mentioned oligarchs to help them with their own electioneering and the fact that during the presidential elections in 2016 that Russia -via Wikileaks, genuine hacking, having real life 'Red Sparrow' into the mix, social media, and Cambridge- manipulated the election...

... you can't simply assume that Russia didn't have a finger in the pie as it were.
 
The facts are pretty simple, one side lied a lot, the other side had no clue what it was actually doing. That's pretty much it, it doesn't need to be the result of a grand conspiracy, it is the result of lies and obfuscation.
It's so much easier to blame everything on one obviously and irredeemably evil group, that way you don't have to question yourself as everything will go better if you destroy the evil McEvil evil people.

Imagine for a second if you had to face the possibility that you fucked up on your own, that would be horrible.
 
It's so much easier to blame everything on one obviously and irredeemably evil group, that way you don't have to question yourself as everything will go better if you destroy the evil McEvil evil people.

Imagine for a second if you had to face the possibility that you fucked up on your own, that would be horrible.
Problem is with the evidence provided so far. Russia had at least a hand in the entire situation, using the Brexit leaders as useful idiots. All it takes for leaders to go with the unthinkable is enough push from individuals or groups to push things over the edge outside of other factors. History tells us that rather explicitly and especially in the modern era.
 
It's so much easier to blame everything on one obviously and irredeemably evil group, that way you don't have to question yourself as everything will go better if you destroy the evil McEvil evil people.

Imagine for a second if you had to face the possibility that you fucked up on your own, that would be horrible.
It also gives the people involved an "out" to stop the stupid that they are doing without losing as much face if we can get them to say "Russia manipulated me, I should have known that was a bad idea, let's fix it". So, yes blaming Russia can be a good thing even if they were only making the already bad worse.
 
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Russia didn't make 40 years of simmering Euro-sceptism materialise out of thin air, there has always been a discontentment with Europe and Britains position in it across generations, it's well entrenched and well represented at all levels of society from the ultra rich to the ultra poor. The Conservative party has had a strong anti Europe streak since forever, that this happened while the Conservatives were in charge should not be a surprise.
Russia didn't misdirect the political campaign, there was no real slander or dirty tricks as you see in America, just bombast and manipulating sentiment on one side and on the other Project Fear which if anyone has even a tiny bit of knowledge on advertising would know fear is virtually useless as a means to carry a message. They focused on why leaving was bad instead of why staying is good.
Russia did not make the stay campaign lacklustre and badly directed, nor was it needed for the leave campaign to go maximum feels over facts, those have been the bog standard in political discourse for over two decades, maybe more. The people involved were quite capable of doing that themselves.

The truth is simply that the winning side put sentiment and emotion over facts, and the losing campaign fumbled and failed despite everyone assuming they would win. If that sounds like a mirror of the US elections then that's exactly right. Complacency and confusion of how to proceed is the root cause of both screwups. Like Rufus says it's easy to look outside for blame, or to attack the system, but the truth is that its a mix of dishonesty on one side and incompetence on the other. Now it sucks for everyone because the people we allow to be in charge because we don't vote enough are largely worthless and spectacularly out of their depth.
 
The truth is simply that the winning side but sentiment and emotion over facts, and the losing campaign fumbled and failed despite everyone assuming they would win. If that sounds like a mirror of the US elections then that's exactly right. Complacency and confusion of how to proceed is the root cause of both screwups. Like Rufus says it's easy to look outside for blame, or to attack the system, but the truth is that its a mix of dishonesty on one side and incompetence on the other. Now it sucks for everyone because the people we allow to be in charge because we don't vote enough are largely worthless and spectacularly out of their depth.
Yep, blaming everyone else but oneself for the failures leads to very bad juju.
It also gives the people involved an "out" to stop the stupid that they are doing without losing as much face if we can get them to say "Russia manipulated me, I should have known that was a bad idea, let's fix it". So, yes blaming Russia can be a good thing even if they were only making the already bad worse.
No. As Muldoon said, this thing is the result of decades of societal fuck-ups of an inbred political system and a quasi-caste society in which everyone has a share of guilt and the only way to solve these issues is to fucking acknowledge it. But that'd require turning the entire Oxbridge system on its head as well as acknowledging that the Empire is deader than dead.

And that would not do.
 
This should help, a chart of polls regarding the British public's views on Brexit for the last 40 years

image-20160621-13005-1ro1epj.png



The fluctuations are easy to see with leave sometimes prefered, other times it is stay, but there is usually not much variance between them and you can see how they shift back and forth a hell of a lot.
 
Until proven otherwise, I would suggest to always consider such a post as sarcasm. That will do wonder with your sanity. :)

Aye. There's no living with the duck if you take all his words as said. The sarcasm is strong in that one.
 
Aye. There's no living with the duck if you take all his words as said. The sarcasm is strong in that one.
Though I do mock earnestly Aaron for his 'Belka Russia did it!' attitude for pretty much everything, because it does lead to the good ole' 'Stab in the back' myth we all know and love.
 


Evidence is showing up that Russia has done what they did in the 2016 US elections, just on a smaller scale. All just to tip the scales in Brexit's favor and force a Brexit using various factors. I'm not denying that the PMs of Britain are at fault, what I'm not denying is the fact that we've got evidence that Russia at least tipped the scales in Brexit's favor.

Only time will tell on where the money goes, just like the Trump-Russia investigation.

Yeah, there are connections with Brexit to the 2016 elections... I wasn't keeping an eye on Brexit and this link wasn't expected. Then again, given the Trump-Russia investigation being always showing up with new information that adds someone to the list...
 
I'm not denying that the MPs of Britain are at fault, what I'm not denying is the fact that we've got evidence that Russia at least tipped the scales in Brexit's favor.

Fixed that for you. Members of Parliaments, not Prime Ministers.

Personally though, I'd blame BoJo and Farage more than I'd blame the Russians for Brexit. Well, them and the people gullible enough to eat the crap the two spewed out of their mouths.

The fact that BoJo blithely said he had no plans should the people of UK chose to leave and Farage's bullshit found an audience during the campaign for Brexit leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Fuck, even Lord Buckethead had better ideas and he's a joke candidate.
 
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This should help, a chart of polls regarding the British public's views on Brexit for the last 40 years

image-20160621-13005-1ro1epj.png



The fluctuations are easy to see with leave sometimes prefered, other times it is stay, but there is usually not much variance between them and you can see how they shift back and forth a hell of a lot.



... Rufus, you are being an ass, the company in question showed up as inside the Steele Dossier and has major ties to Russia thanks to what has come out of the Trump-Russia investigation.

In addition to helping Trump and Co, this company also helped Brexit which is a connection that can't be ignored.

No, it simply needs the Queen to be fed up enough to do so, and despite everything I think the Queen will be starting to get displeased at the shenanigans of Parliament soon enough.

She is in her 90's and possibly the only one with enough prestige to pull this off. If it were to happen, in some way, I expect her to be loath to try to use her remaining time being gentle to the power grabbing morons. Her locking the morons in the Tower and having the gentlemen with the giant maces tenderize them, alot, would probably put her in the history books in a big way.
 
This means I have to point out again how the Brexit decision and the Unionists' control of May meant the Good Friday Agreement were being torn apart by the Eton lead paint-lickers again? Damn technical issues.
 
Highly unpleasant indeed.

If the treaty needs to be renegotiated then it gets renegotiated, that's what governments and politicians do. Circumstances change, if they didn't we'd all still be occupying Germany. It's an excuse to sit down and hash it out and to use political pressure to achieve some sort of workable set up which is apparently already happening.

It is not under any stretch an excuse to start blowing shit up and murdering people again.
 
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