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UK Politics The Brexit thread (or All -not- quiet on the western front)

UK going straight from consulting world power to 3rd world developing nation is going to hurt upon leaving EU,is going to hurt the EU? How??
The thing is that perception plays into these sorts of things as well. If the EU is perceived as weak, then the idiots and cunning will use it to their advantage. The EU has to be perceived as strong to keep the exit groups from doing anything stupid. So, even if this turns Britain into a literal dumpster fire, if the EU isn't seen as pulling the trigger and only Britain's shear stupidity doing it then it'll give the exit groups more credit in the 'X were stupid, ours will go better' mentality.
 
The thing is that perception plays into these sorts of things as well. If the EU is perceived as weak, then the idiots and cunning will use it to their advantage. The EU has to be perceived as strong to keep the exit groups from doing anything stupid. So, even if this turns Britain into a literal dumpster fire, if the EU isn't seen as pulling the trigger and only Britain's shear stupidity doing it then it'll give the exit groups more credit in the 'X were stupid, ours will go better' mentality.
this view does not comport with things as I have seen to date, but your logic is internally consistent
 
this view does not comport with things as I have seen to date, but your logic is internally consistent
But then, Aaron tends to go from one extreme to the other and seems to be starting his authoritarian phase as he thinks democracy is failing due to "Active Measures" and stuff. In the real world, though, the constant political humiliation of the exit groups and the 24/7 display of their status of losers does the job pretty well.
 
this view does not comport with things as I have seen to date, but your logic is internally consistent
If there is anything that I've learned over the years, it's that perception is fucking everything. Period, end of story. If you can't get into a person's perception, then you're better off not trying. So the EU's best chance to screw with the various exit groups within the EU states is that it'll pull at least a mildly punitive Brexit and let the British's elected government's stupidity do the rest. This would allow the EU to have wiggle room in global diplomacy while allowing the EU to be seen as pulling the trigger. The problem with this is that if they are seen to be too punitive, it'll stain the EU's ability to do global diplomacy for a while depending on how bad it is both in perception and reality (and if it is Treaty of Versailles level? Oh boy would it look bad).
 
But then, Aaron tends to go from one extreme to the other and seems to be starting his authoritarian phase as he thinks democracy is failing due to "Active Measures" and stuff. In the real world, though, the constant political humiliation of the exit groups and the 24/7 display of their status of losers does the job pretty well.

it's pretty hard to preach Pride! Nation! Destiny! Power! when you are forced to eat your own sh$t 24/7 no?
 
Aaaand postponed again until 31 October. I do believe that the new plan is to import Michael Myers and let him kill people until the Brexit plan is agreed upon. Then something something stop everyone else from dying, easy peasy.

"Please do not waste this time." - Donald Tusk

Oh, they will find a way, Donald. They will find a way.
 
Aaaand postponed again until 31 October. I do believe that the new plan is to import Michael Myers and let him kill people until the Brexit plan is agreed upon. Then something something stop everyone else from dying, easy peasy.

"Please do not waste this time." - Donald Tusk

Oh, they will find a way, Donald. They will find a way.

What does this mean for the EU elections though?
 
It's probable that Parliament will sabotage the MEP elections.
 
If there is anything that I've learned over the years, it's that perception is fucking everything. Period, end of story. If you can't get into a person's perception, then you're better off not trying. So the EU's best chance to screw with the various exit groups within the EU states is that it'll pull at least a mildly punitive Brexit and let the British's elected government's stupidity do the rest. This would allow the EU to have wiggle room in global diplomacy while allowing the EU to be seen as pulling the trigger. The problem with this is that if they are seen to be too punitive, it'll stain the EU's ability to do global diplomacy for a while depending on how bad it is both in perception and reality (and if it is Treaty of Versailles level? Oh boy would it look bad).
Take a wild guess, what's the general perception of Brexit this side of the Channel, let alone the opinion on the UK's elected government. Hint, it's not good, and the conduct of the UK's political class in the last 2 years made it sure, that the mainstream European media organs didn't have to do anything to shape that perception, only report the facts, without the EU, which can't control the media, even lifting a finger. The UK as whole just do the job for them for free.

When the news about the UK is pretty much just a stream of companies leaving, and they might face shortages of essential things like Insulin because they are woefully unprepared, while the parliament is wasting precious time voting repeatedly on how to arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, even the most thick headed/ignorant get the idea that it's not a good idea.

Perception is important, but never assume, that even the person sitting next to you on the bus has the same perception as you, let alone whole countries' worth of people with a very different media setup, and cultural outlook/baggage.
 
Okay yeah i'm dissapointed in the EU for allowing the UK another extension but at least macron remains as great as he ever is https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-leaders-after-opposing-long-brexit-extension

Though i can see why the EU did this. In the end it gives a the UK a bit more than two months (after the EU elections) to show how serious they were about the whole sabotaging the EU thing and well the damage they can do in that time is limited while this gives ireland and the netherlands more time to prepare as well as alloeing the ressettlement of more british companies onto the continent. And if they really try to sabotage the EU they can forget anymore extensions. Plus in the end this only shows that tze brits don't have the balls to actually leave since it was them who requested the extension
 
Okay yeah i'm dissapointed in the EU for allowing the UK another extension but at least macron remains as great as he ever is https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-leaders-after-opposing-long-brexit-extension

Though i can see why the EU did this. In the end it gives a the UK a bit more than two months (after the EU elections) to show how serious they were about the whole sabotaging the EU thing and well the damage they can do in that time is limited while this gives ireland and the netherlands more time to prepare as well as alloeing the ressettlement of more british companies onto the continent. And if they really try to sabotage the EU they can forget anymore extensions. Plus in the end this only shows that tze brits don't have the balls to actually leave since it was them who requested the extension
Now, this delay, if the UK accept it, could be used to refuse an unilateral revoking of Article 50, arguing that the fact the UK asked for a delay is indicative that their revival wouldn't be a good faith.
 
Could the UK just freeze the art 50 till they have a plan or they find sense?

They can revoke it. They can gtfo. There is no "Freezing" it though. Either they go or they stay with all that entails. Or they stay in the corner, quietly, until they gtfo if I read this extension correctly.
 
Fuck I'm sick of people gloating over this
Fuck everyone
It's annoying, isn't it? Now take a look at how England has been acting for decades towards the Union. It's been much, much worse and a lot less justified. Let's take Harris' words:

They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind. The Englanders entered this Union under the rather childish delusion that they were going to insult and piss off everyone else, and nobody was going to be annoyed with them or drop them when they'd be in trouble.

Your entire political system has made a living on insulting your closest neighbours and partners, your media has been gloating for decades about how you won the war and how the Continentals were a threat, and now your people has voted to leave. For fuck's sake, we've been much more concilient than your collective behaviour would ever deserve. So if you wanna tell someone to get fucked, tell it to your political class, to your tabloid-reading neighbours and to the people who are fucking your life with a level of arrogance that make a Parisian philosopher look like a Tibetan monk.
 
Fuck I'm sick of people gloating over this
Fuck everyone
Who is gloating?

People are exhausted and/or pissed off that there is somehow this strong will to leave, but refusal of every option that would let them leave. Meanwhile the UK parliament is ensuring that they accomplish nothing except voting time and time again to refuse to do anything, and the EU has to spend all its time dealing with Brexit instead of dealing with things that affect the 27 nations that want to stay.

Saying "Oh, for fucks sake. You aren't going to agree, just crash out already" isn't gloating. It is acknowledging that parliament is incapable of getting anything done, and acknowledging the global fatigue of having all this inaction consuming news cycles and interrupting governance. It also doesn't help that so many in parliament are trying to paint the UK as poor downtrodden victims when they are the ones who are preventing any deals from being made.
 
Parliament is convinced that who is in charge of the burning hulk of post Brexit Britain is more important then not you know becoming a burning hulk, if that isn't evidence of total moral failure... God save UK because their leaders wont
 
Parliament is convinced that who is in charge of the burning hulk of post Brexit Britain is more important then not you know becoming a burning hulk, if that isn't evidence of total moral failure... God save UK because their leaders wont
So… no one will ? Because if they are waiting for an imaginary being… What a waste.
 
Parliament is convinced that who is in charge of the burning hulk of post Brexit Britain is more important then not you know becoming a burning hulk, if that isn't evidence of total moral failure... God save UK because their leaders wont
Everyone rearranges deck chairs on the titanic. It seems to be a human thing, when beset from the outside, to tear oneself apart within.
 
Everyone rearranges deck chairs on the titanic. It seems to be a human thing, when beset from the outside, to tear oneself apart within.
that's the sickest thing all the things I've seen point to members of parliament scapegoating the EU for the fallout of their terrible policies and what was bound to happen with out the empire to prop the UK up, generations of people have become completely detached from base reality, this Brexit rot came from with in and it will tear whats left to the ground
 
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