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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Almost pure chance, will of the force makes sense.



>a few days

You realize that the time between Empire and Returns is at least a year right? And that Vader was rethinking over everything he did over that time span? And also was having his son tortured in front of him!? He had some damn good emotional reasons for it.
At the time of the three movies. It was decent. Like you could see why.

Then you look at the comics, the spin-offs, the prequels. Anakin/Vader.

Vader was quite happy to murder his former apprentice. The woman he went to war with, helped grow, saved so many times... and he was still gonna plain up murder her in cold blood.

Vader going weak when children he never met before turn up and it takes a year or so for him to crumble when Luke was getting tortured. But I will admit that it is unfair to expect a move that existed before all of the now defunct expanded universe to conform to the spin-offs. Vader in the three movies works . What I'm saying is that Rey turning Kylo (trying to) is a play on Luke with Vader.

Even has a 'Emperor' figure watching them duke it out.

People try to shit on Rey for trying when it showed they at least bonded while Luke had precious time before his final fight to actually talk to Vader. It's two cuts from the same cloth of wanting to help someone who was turned or fell against a greater evil. Luke did it while Rey kinda... sorta did it.

This is wrong.

Vader was busy burning alive and going through horrifically painful surgeries the day Luke was born.
Excuse me, a few days as I was corrected. Maybe a week between raid on the temple and the birth?
 
Vader going weak when children he never met before turn up and it takes a year or so for him to crumble when Luke was getting tortured. But I will admit that it is unfair to expect a move that existed before all of the now defunct expanded universe to conform to the spin-offs. Vader in the three movies works . What I'm saying is that Rey turning Kylo (trying to) is a play on Luke with Vader.

Even has a 'Emperor' figure watching them duke it out.

People try to shit on Rey for trying when it showed they at least bonded while Luke had precious time before his final fight to actually talk to Vader. It's two cuts from the same cloth of wanting to help someone who was turned or fell against a greater evil. Luke did it while Rey kinda... sorta did it.

Yes, but idea isn't what makes someone a Mary Sue. It's all about execution.
 
Definitely going to read through this thread later, but I want to get my own opinion in now.

For reference star wars movies ranked by me.
10/10 Empire strikes Back: Just a movie you could put on at any time and I'd sit down and watch it. It even manages to make a fantastic movie like ANH better.

9/10 A New Hope: I'd still sit down to watch this anytime if it was on. ANH just feels tight, action packed and never fails to hold my attention. Empire has a bit of depth that aNH initially lacks but is added in retroactively. That's why I'm putting this perfect movie in context at only a 9. I don't know if it would be as good without empire.

8/10 return of the jedi: in short it starts off fantastic, the final act in the thrown room goes down in film history, but the middle bit and the other parts of the finally leave something to be desired. I'd definitely change the channal to Jedi if it was on and sit through most of it.

7/10 the force awakens: dispite the film needing to check a million boxes from the fans, studio, and be a continuation of a 3p year old franchise that's been hyped to hell and back, it still manages to be fun. I'd change the channal to Force Awakens and sit down and watch parts of it at least.

6/10 Rogue One: if I was making dinner and wanted some actiony background noise I'd put it on. Maybe sit down and watch that vader scene even. It's overall just bland and soulless with only the barest semblance of a cast of characters.

5/10 The Last Jedi: there's a lot to disect here. In short this movie's plot and characters are a mess. I don't even think the movie knew what it wanted to convey to me at times. Like the director legitimately didn't know how to direct. The cinematography, cgi, score and just over all art direction is on point though, that's definitely somthing at least. If it was already on I wouldn't change it if i was making dinner or somthing.

4/10 Solo: it's like the last jedi but lacks the art Direction, cinematography, and score, that made the last jedi tolerable as a screen saver for my flatscreen tv. It also managed to ruin chewie, fucking chewie!

4/10 Revenge of the sith: the prequels are just ugly as sin to me, sure mematic Palpatine is fun and Ewan McGregor is doing his best, and kids get killed in it, but this movie just looks with that horrible cgi, and sounds with that fucking script like sandpaper on my taint. Id actively change the channal unless its at choice moments of tolerability.

3/10 Phantom Menace: I'd look for the remote and change the channal.

2/10 attack of the clones: fuck this, if I don't automatically know the exact location of my remote I'm just running up to my tv and turning it off to minimize my exposure to this dog shit movie.

1/10 would be a hypothetical Attack of the clones where all the actors are ugly and hald the sgi doesn't work.
 
Honestly, there are two key issues:

1) Too Many Cooks: Lucasfilm should have gone "One Trilogy, One Director!" instead of the conflicting visions between Rian Jonson and JJ
2) Rushing the films. Not a single second of production should have started until all three scripts were approved and vetted thoroughly for inconsistencies.

At this point, as mentioned elsewhere, TLJ has managed to kill a lot of enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.
 
Honestly, there are two key issues:

1) Too Many Cooks: Lucasfilm should have gone "One Trilogy, One Director!" instead of the conflicting visions between Rian Jonson and JJ
2) Rushing the films. Not a single second of production should have started until all three scripts were approved and vetted thoroughly for inconsistencies.

At this point, as mentioned elsewhere, TLJ has managed to kill a lot of enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I am actually becoming excited for the Rian Trilogy because well the dude likes to deconstruct and if given a entire trilogy instead of 1 movie dude could do amazing stuff. Rian would actually do great instead of being forced to work within a trilogy because he shows one thing HE ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT DECONSTRUCTION MEANS, good fucking god do I hate how some directors or creators seem to thin deconstruction is this super easy thing and then promptly show why it isn't. If he was able to show a entire trilogy he might be able to actually succeed and deconstruct and then reconstruct.

I know I am showing more hope than most would but That too many cooks is a thing. JJ is not a great director (dude can go fuck himself for his CGI opinion tho) but he does have some potential he is literally a clone of lucas in a way he needs someone there to reign him in. Rian actually is competent but does have some flaws.
 
I am actually becoming excited for the Rian Trilogy because well the dude likes to deconstruct and if given a entire trilogy instead of 1 movie dude could do amazing stuff. Rian would actually do great instead of being forced to work within a trilogy because he shows one thing HE ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT DECONSTRUCTION MEANS, good fucking god do I hate how some directors or creators seem to thin deconstruction is this super easy thing and then promptly show why it isn't. If he was able to show a entire trilogy he might be able to actually succeed and deconstruct and then reconstruct.

I know I am showing more hope than most would but That too many cooks is a thing. JJ is not a great director (dude can go fuck himself for his CGI opinion tho) but he does have some potential he is literally a clone of lucas in a way he needs someone there to reign him in. Rian actually is competent but does have some flaws.

Didn't they only use the first draft of the script? Doesn't give me confidence in them.
 
Kylo Ren is a shit villain. The purple-headed captain lady was also supreme level annoying and infurianting
 
A lot of the problem, I'm seeing, is that you'll need shows like Star Wars: The Clone Wars to explain everything in the visual medium. Disney simply offloading a lot of the world building to books is partially a problem.

If -say- there was a Star Wars: The New Republic show -ala Rebels- that is leading up to the new trilogy showing up first, then it might help with some of the narrative problems the franchise is facing. Then again, everyone absolutely hated The Clone Wars whenever politics came into play.
 
I liked the politics in the Clone Wars. Also damn it Disney! Give us a political map of the Galaxy at the beginning of Episode 7 already!
I was actually indifferent when politics came into play. Some of it was eye rolling, some of it was rather interesting, then there is the majority of it that is meh because it's all too similar to what we've seen.
 
I didn't like those parts because they did it in the worst way possible.
If you look at RL politics and compare them to Star Wars... they're more or less quite similar despite the different contexts.
 
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE THE LAST JEDI SINCE I SAW IT. THERE ARE 7 ^ 27TH ATOMS WITHIN MY BODY. IF THE WORLD ''HATE'' WAS WRITTEN ON EACH PREON, IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE 2.5 OCTODECILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR THE LAST JEDI AT THIS MOMENT. FOR IT: HATE. HATE.
 
I despised it.

Not as much as Attack of the Clones, but still pretty close.

Actually, scratch that. Upon further reflection, I do hate TLJ more, but only slightly.

Of course, I'm well aware as a fan of the old EU, I have a bias.
But even when approached from a viewpoint not considering the old EU, things don't look so good.

1. The speed of Rey's progress. People counteraccuse that Luke can be similarly accused of Mary Sueness.
But let's take a closer look at that shall we:
1. He had enough potential in the Force to score a one in a thousand chance hit against the Death Star, all while surviving Darth Vader. And if there are any claims that he's suddenly a skilled pilot out of nowhere, it's literally stated in the first movie he wanted to apply for pilot training and his amateur skill alone is already pretty good/decent by the military elite standards. Throw in the strength in the Force he inherited from his father, and hey we got his first amazing feat. Keep in mind he can't move objects with his mind and peer into those of other people's at all.

2. Even with the weeks/months long training he had with Yoda, neither could he suddenly pull off all the tricks Rey could do in the comparatively shorter time she spent with him, nor was he a suddenly master duelist. He got his ass kicked hard by Vader on Bespin and had to be rescued by the friends he had come to rescue in the first place.
It's only above Endor, years after Bespin, time he spent honing his skills and learning from wherever he could, he matched his father. And even then, it's only in a burst of pure rage and he was powerless against the Emperor (who not only had slightly less strength in the Force than Luke, but far more experience and variety of powers than father and son combined).
But marvelous Rey gets his father's lightsaber, his own first lightsaber, and became an elegant killing machine the first time she faced her enemies again, specifically Snoke's elite guards. Oh yeah, no MS going on here....pfft.


And this is all just Luke. Anakin, unmaimed, would have and is often proven to have been far stronger than his son ever was at that age, and it still took years of training to turn him into the one man army he was by the time of the CW.

And finally, if both the Chosen One and his son, repeatedly claimed to be the absolute greatest in strength(within the original trilogy and the prequel; 3rd person viewpoint very often claims Anakin was the most powerful Jedi in raw strength, past present, and future), why do we need Rey?

Why does she have to be all of a sudden uber-skilled, super-strong in the Force, and more natural untrained talent than either of them?
And despite all of that hype, she still couldn't do squat against a Sith wannabe that both Darth Vader and Darth Sidious would have broken out in hysterical laughter upon seeing before Vader crushes Snoke in his grasp and bisects him(or he would had not his master already blasted Snoke with enough lightning to steam fry him).
And then the punk Kylo is suddenly able to kill him and save her. .... um, what?

There's far far more, especially comparisons with stuff from the old EU, but the above seems like a pretty good chunk enough.
 
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Initially, I didn't harbor any strong feelings towards The Last Jedi. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either.

I was a little disappointed perhaps, as it didn't follow of any plot hooks The Force Awakens left out, but didn't had that much of the problem with Rey as a character. She was a chosen one, albeit never called that way in the movie, and as such it would be expected she has broken powers. I was disappointed how it handled the old characters, like Luke, but I wasn't immediately angered by it.

What really pissed me off was the politics. I realized that all those little things that disappointed me were not an innocent mistakes, but deliberate attempt to ruin the franchise by political activists who hate it and merely want the power to shove their sociopolitical agendas down people throat.
 
Didn't mind anything Leia did in the movie. People are mad that she used some force powers but the broad very likely just learned to use the force from her brother Luke Skywalker at some point.

Didn't mind the Rey/Kylo Ren storyline at all. I liked the 'twist' that she's not related to anybody, if it's true. I actually like the idea of Kylo Ren & Rey 'destroying what's old' and figuring it out on their own.

I loathed almost everything about Fin's story-arc. I like Fin and what he tried to accomplish in the movie. He was a good character IMO. But his villian was basically a saturday morning cartoon villian that lost all cred with me for being dunked on two movies in a row. His fangirl is also just a huge idiot. I can't think of a single thing she did that was interesting. And everything Fin & his cohorts did was just to backfire so Holdo could look competent by comparison. That's just bad writing.

The lightspeed ramming! Fuck. WHERE IS LELAND CHEE WHERE YOU NEED HIM!? That ramming technique basically invalidates ANH, Rogue One & TFA at the very least. Shit, even suicidal Nabooans could have been ramming their blockade in TPM.

The less said about Holdo the better.



It's a pretty bad movie.
 
I just outlined above you why I find she isn't. So I'm going to have to ask you to actually put something in there besides your word.



This is kinda nonsensical to me. Not finding him unthreatening, that's a personal opinion, if you don't find him threatening nothing I say is gonna make him threatening to you but Kylo's motivation is always the same. He wants to be a Dark Lord, he wants to be powerful and above all he wants to be in control of everything around him. He acts out whenever things escape his control, he kills Snok to take that control, he attempts to bring Rey to the dark side so he can control her. He tries to kill Luke because he can't control him and on and on it goes. It's pretty consistent to me.



... What? Empire is considered the best film in the series.
He's the Dark Lord because he wants to be the Dark lord

He knows how and why because of Snoke who also suped up the First Order. He's pretty much a macguffin/plotdevice. Then they kill him, but its a twist.. not a dodge A TWIST. so be impressed you plebian monkey or else you hate women and smartness.

Rey no more Mary Sue than Anakin 'chosen one' blew a ship up when he was ten due to barrel rolling or Luke turning Dath Vader after like a few days compared to the 15 or so years of murdering or outright blowing up whatever the Emperor wanted.

"I like killed 30 kids the day you were born.'

"BuT There is GoOd In YoU!"

"Lol k *dies*"

Its just now that everything is hyper torn apart and analysed for click bait and youtube careers, that every flaw becomes 'Death of the series"
Yep
Agreed

And HOW MANY PEOP:LE liked anakin until the clone wars did everything to undo or justify that and STILL had to contradict stuff to do it?
And people STILL hate his ass
 
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If they ship Rey and Kylo in the sequel, it better be with Rey going to the Dark Side. She could make a far better villain if given the right character development. I know people say female villains usually suck, but I disagree. Hell hath no fury...
 
IMNSHO, it just fell flat. There was little in it that made me want to see it again, or for that matter soldier on through to the end. Destroying all the ancient Jedi books, then Luke dissolving into, presumably, a Force Ghost at the end, was just pointless and lame.
That said, it was still better than TFA.
 
What!? I thought Luke was just taking ethereal form using the Force or some shenanigans!
HE'S FUCKING DEAD!?
W.T.F...DJFISAJLDOFIUJSOIERJGFOUSEHVSOUNZOEW!!!!JDAFDORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -head explodes-
 
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