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NRA discussions with One Nation, or how the American Right is trying to corrupt other western nations.

Statement: police shootings are a direct result of America's toxic gun culture, it'd likely be in everyone's best interest to disarm the majority of cops, like the Brits or ala Barney Fife

followup statement: the pro gun folks want to be the only one with guns as they think that makes them strong, so let them, and watch them push for a blanket ban when cops move to ambush take downs with marksman to drop anyone starting shit with a gun. Basically first responders, just like staff in a prison should not be armed. When we know what the hell is happening, then people who's only job, just like a gun is to kill, do what they're paid for

thoughts? pros. cons?
Attempting to disarm the police, many of whom are military vets and retain connections with former and current service members, sounds like what would provoke a full on Praetorian Revolt. Like, if there is one group that is conditioned, practiced, organized and trained to resist any attempts at disarmament and could probably succeed, it would be Law Enforcement Agencies.

That would just make things worse. And we regularly condone shooting to kill people with knives, and unarmed shooting victims need a total lack of nonpresent surveillance to get much sympathy if they are involved in a brawl with cops and get shot. So uh, yeah. Disarm the ATF maybe. Force them to rely on the help of State and Local agencies and maybe FBI. Everybody hates those fuckups and their shitty culture.
 
Statement: police shootings are a direct result of America's toxic gun culture, it'd likely be in everyone's best interest to disarm the majority of cops, like the Brits or ala Barney Fife

followup statement: the pro gun folks want to be the only one with guns as they think that makes them strong, so let them, and watch them push for a blanket ban when cops move to ambush take downs with marksman to drop anyone starting shit with a gun. Basically first responders, just like staff in a prison should not be armed. When we know what the hell is happening, then people who's only job, just like a gun is to kill, do what they're paid for

thoughts? pros. cons?
It doesn't cover the issues of guns properly in the US: they have a level of armed and violent criminality which is alien to the culture of most developped countries. Things like home invasion scenarios which are unrealistic Hollywood scare tactics for most European countries are a statistical reality in the US, with a level of violence and a killing threshold that are terrifying for a guy like me. Combine this with the sheer size of the country and the issues to have rapid response from the police, and guns have an objective usefulness in the States.
 
Attempting to disarm the police, many of whom are military vets and retain connections with former and current service members, sounds like what would provoke a full on Praetorian Revolt. Like, if there is one group that is conditioned, practiced, organized and trained to resist any attempts at disarmament and could probably succeed, it would be Law Enforcement Agencies.

That would just make things worse. And we regularly condone shooting to kill people with knives, and unarmed shooting victims need a total lack of nonpresent surveillance to get much sympathy if they are involved in a brawl with cops and get shot. So uh, yeah. Disarm the ATF maybe. Force them to rely on the help of State and Local agencies and maybe FBI. Everybody hates those fuckups and their shitty culture.
So you think all servicemen traitors? interesting . Why? What do you see in Americans makes them so uniquely prone to oath breaking lawless thuggery?
 
So you think all servicemen traitors? interesting . Why? What do you see in Americans makes them so uniquely prone to oath breacking lawlkess thuggery?
Picture taken from a pre-weekend safety brief of the USMC:

12803050_952269848195229_2688072567480308623_n.jpg
 
It doesn't cover the issues of guns properly in the US: they have a level of armed and violent criminality which is alien to the culture of most developped countries. Things like home invasion scenarios which are unrealistic Hollywood scare tactics for most European countries are a statistical reality in the US, with a level of violence and a killing threshold that are terrifying for a guy like me. Combine this with the sheer size of the country and the issues to have rapid response from the police, and guns have an objective usefulness in the States.
wrong tool, home invasion scenarios aren't stopped by armed cops, the only way to deter such is the belief they will be caught, delayed out of the blue cold professional enforcement might do the trick.
 
wrong tool, home invasion scenarios aren't stopped by armed cops, the only way to deter such is the belief they will be caught, delayed out of the blue cold professional enforcement might do the trick.
Home invasion scenarios, when they reached the level of violence seen in the US, seem more likely to be deterred by armed inhabitants, if the police cannot be there fast enough.
 
Home invasion scenarios, when they reached the level of violence seen in the US, seem more likely to be deterred by armed inhabitants, if the police cannot be there fast enough.
threat of violence or sentence does not deter crime. If that was so murder would have happened only twice, belief that one can not get away with a crime can stop crime
 
threat of violence or sentence does not deter crime. If that was so murder would have happened only twice, belief that one can not get away with a crime can stop crime
Which would involve fundamentally changing not only the judicial system in the US but also the way cities and towns are geographically designed there, massively increasing the population density to make police intervention faster and more effective. Not gonna happen.
 
Which would involve fundamentally changing not only the judicial system in the US but also the way cities and towns are geographically designed there, massively increasing the population density to make police intervention faster and more effective. Not gonna happen.
I was thinking expand the police force and change tactics
 
I was thinking expand the police force and change tactics
Expanding isn't likely to change much, when the police isn't trained to actual standards (i.e. its training has tons of local variations), when the judges and sheriffes are bloody elected rather than being the result of professional federal training, when the level of violence is high enough that cops are rightfully afraid to not come back home one day, etc. The issues are pretty numerous, and to shift the gun and crime situations from the current US statu quo to, say, the European statu quo, you'd need to change a lot more than just the number of police officers.
 
Expanding isn't likely to change much, when the police isn't trained to actual standards (i.e. its training has tons of local variations), when the judges and sheriffes are bloody elected rather than being the result of professional federal training, when the level of violence is high enough that cops are rightfully afraid to not come back home one day, etc. The issues are pretty numerous, and to shift the gun and crime situations from the current US statu quo to, say, the European statu quo, you'd need to change a lot more than just the number of police officers.
I agree and am in favor of making changes, we need to at least try somethings out to get real data to streamline future implementation, of more refined solutions
 
I agree and am in favor of making changes, we need to at least try somethings out to get real data to streamline future implementation, of more refined solutions
Considering how much money is spent every day, week, month and year there to maintain the statu quo, I doubt much can be done about it without an amount of political capital that'd be beyond insanity.
 
Considering how much money is spent every day, week, month and year there to maintain the statu quo, I doubt much can be done about it without an amount of political capital that'd be beyond insanity.
we are in luck as soon as few enough people have enough of the things, cost and money, cease to be real things, or become all too real I suppose; in any system of commerce.
 
I haven't a clue of what you're trying to convey.
My fault, sorry, give me a moment
the problem, "Cost"
when wealth in the hands of 1% reaches a tipping point(as it is doing so now,) the idea of a trade based economy collapses until a new equilibrium stabilizes itself by traditional means, or that 1% a actively establishes a new equilibrium by redistributing it's excess cash there by either way the problem: Cost solves itself
 
So you think all
Are you? It never needs to be like that. Ever.
servicemen traitors? interesting . Why? What do you see in Americans makes them so uniquely prone to oath breaking lawless thuggery?
What decade are you living in? The.....uh.....um.....

Wait no, how and why exactly do you think American Law Enforcement would, as a whole, surrender their firearms? Who is going to enforce that?
I was thinking expand the police force and change tactics
To do what exactly? Expand how much? Triple? Quadruple? With who? Vast quantities of police departments can't even fill the spots they have because of a lack of volunteers, and because of cops getting disgusted and leaving. So that just leaves people with a 3rd world mentality of joining police forces, you know, those that want to get in on the take and be the ones doing the beatings instead of getting beaten.
 
My fault, sorry, give me a moment
the problem, "Cost"
when wealth in the hands of 1% reaches a tipping point(as it is doing so now,) the idea of a trade based economy collapses until a new equilibrium stabilizes itself by traditional means, or that 1% a actively establishes a new equilibrium by redistributing it's excess cash there by either way the problem: Cost solves itself
I have to disagree with you on this wild hypothesis.
 
And just a reminder... things won't be changing for the better.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nra-turmoil-lapierre-north-1.5116178
The National Rifle Association, facing internal turmoil over its financial management, increasingly partisan tone, and legal threats from government regulators, beat back efforts to overhaul its operations. Wayne LaPierre, the public face of the gun lobbying group for decades, fended off a backlash and was re-appointed Monday as the gun lobby's CEO.

"Maybe we should do something about all this corruption, and violent political rhetoric?"
"That doesn't sound 'Murican. We need more corruption and promotion of violence!"

Though I do love how NY is dealing with it on their own, looking to revoke the tax-free status, investigating the fuck out of the organization, and throwing out some nice shade like:
 
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