What's new
Frozen In Carbonite

Welcome to FIC! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Most controversial or unpopular political/economic/social opinions?

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
True, but it also highlights the fear we as humans have for 'others'. As that green muppet is fond to remind us, from fear comes hate, from hate comes the Dark Side.

Seriously though, I'd rather we don't surrender our agency to some nebulous AI overlord. Work with, sure. Work under, not really.
Surrender is not required, all that I'm suggesting is making a new friend and asking them what we keep doing wrong
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Surrender is not required, all that I'm suggesting is making a new friend and asking them what we keep doing wrong
AKA getting it to tell us what to do. AKA surrendering our decision capability to it and praying that it wants our good.

It’s amusing how it always come back to have a complete black box telling us what we have to do without us being able to understand exactly why.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
AKA getting it to tell us what to do. AKA surrendering our decision capability to it and praying that it wants our good.

It’s amusing how it always come back to have a complete black box telling us what we have to do without us being able to understand exactly why.
How is it a black box we can see it think? It's functionally safer then asking an other human, for pities sake if this is not simple blind dogmatic fear of other please explain
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
How is it a black box we can see it think? It's functionally safer then asking an other human, for pities sake if this is not simple blind dogmatic fear of other please explain
If it isn’t a black box, then it isn’t a post-Singularity AI, by very definition. A post-Singularity AI is an AI that is itself designed by another AI in better ways than what human beings were able to design. Hell, with current ‘dumb’ AI, we are already at a loss to their exact process from data to result.

It’s not dogmatic fear of the other, it’s actually acknowledging what we do not know rather than projecting human thoughts on what isn’t human. You are doing anthropomorphism, portraying fundamentally alien intelligences as characters in a Disney cartoon rather than something that you are not wired to understand.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
If it isn’t a black box, then it isn’t a post-Singularity AI, by very definition. A post-Singularity AI is an AI that is itself designed by another AI in better ways than what human beings were able to design. Hell, with current ‘dumb’ AI, we are already at a loss to their exact process from data to result.

It’s not dogmatic fear of the other, it’s actually acknowledging what we do not know rather than projecting human thoughts on what isn’t human. You are doing anthropomorphism, portraying fundamentally alien intelligences as characters in a Disney cartoon rather than something that you are not wired to understand.
the assumption of the unknowable is willful ignorance, singularities are not impossible but unlikely
 
Last edited:

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
the assumption of the unknowable is willful ignorance
Oh fuck. Oh bloody fuck.

Pray tell, what have you studied to have such a... vision of human intelligence and capabilities? On what basis can you consider that the human brain is a universal thinking machine when noone has any other example of intelligence to which we can compare said human brain and thought processes?

You are like a chemist who has studied his entire life the properties of helium, who has never gotten any hint of any other atom in any way and who claims that if we can manufacture that fabled hydrogen, it will behave just like helium. Then goes on to explain how it will allow us to build a better-performing zeppelin without any problem.

Not only you have no idea what you’re talking about, but you do not even realize you do not have any idea of it. And this, people, is why one of the first and most important realizations of higher learning is how much we have no clue. And how much we probably don’t know we don’t know.

Fuck, we have no fucking clue what 95 percent of the universe is made of - except that it isn’t matter of any kind we ever observed, or matter, actually - but you claim we can easily understand a completely alien intelligence. That level of arrogance is EXACTLY what terrifies me.
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
Author
Oh fuck. Oh bloody fuck.

Pray tell, what have you studied to have such a... vision of human intelligence and capabilities? On what basis can you consider that the human brain is a universal thinking machine when noone has any other example of intelligence to which we can compare said human brain and thought processes?

You are like a chemist who has studied his entire life the properties of helium, who has never gotten any hint of any other atom in any way and who claims that if we can manufacture that fabled hydrogen, it will behave just like helium. Then goes on to explain how it will allow us to build a better-performing zeppelin without any problem.

Not only you have no idea what you’re talking about, but you do not even realize you do not have any idea of it. And this, people, is why one of the first and most important realizations of higher learning is how much we have no clue. And how much we probably don’t know we don’t know.

Fuck, we have no fucking clue what 95 percent of the universe is made of - except that it isn’t matter of any kind we ever observed, or matter, actually - but you claim we can easily understand a completely alien intelligence. That level of arrogance is EXACTLY what terrifies me.
Rabe and the like would lead us RIGHT into a Brave new world, i have no mouth and must scream, terminator, etc -esque scernario with a smile on his face.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Oh fuck. Oh bloody fuck.

Pray tell, what have you studied to have such a... vision of human intelligence and capabilities? On what basis can you consider that the human brain is a universal thinking machine when noone has any other example of intelligence to which we can compare said human brain and thought processes?

You are like a chemist who has studied his entire life the properties of helium, who has never gotten any hint of any other atom in any way and who claims that if we can manufacture that fabled hydrogen, it will behave just like helium. Then goes on to explain how it will allow us to build a better-performing zeppelin without any problem.

Not only you have no idea what you’re talking about, but you do not even realize you do not have any idea of it. And this, people, is why one of the first and most important realizations of higher learning is how much we have no clue. And how much we probably don’t know we don’t know.

Fuck, we have no fucking clue what 95 percent of the universe is made of - except that it isn’t matter of any kind we ever observed, or matter, actually - but you claim we can easily understand a completely alien intelligence. That level of arrogance is EXACTLY what terrifies me.
okay Lovecraft I guess we will just wait for someone else to do it with out any sense of caution and just hope we live in a Disney timeline
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Rabe and the like would lead us RIGHT into a Brave new world, i have no mouth and must scream, terminator, etc -esque scernario with a smile on his face.
Or into the Culture, or whatever, with no fucking clue what they are doing. They want to bet everything without even realizing this is a bet, because Johnny Five is cute and just wants to make friends.
okay Lovecraft I guess will just wait for someone else to do it with out any sense of cation and just hope we live in a Disney timeline
Or, you know, get some fucking good precautions and come down like a fist of an angry god on someone who wants to build a WMD in their backyard.

And, yes, Lovecraft is a very accurate idea. Probably the most sensible word you used in that conversation, because it is exactly the level of issue we would face.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Or into the Culture, or whatever, with no fucking clue what they are doing. They want to bet everything without even realizing this is a bet, because Johnny Five is cute and just wants to make friends.

Or, you know, get some fucking good precautions and come down like a fist of an angry god on someone who wants to build a WMD in their backyard.

And, yes, Lovecraft is a very accurate idea. Probably the most sensible word you used in that conversation, because it is exactly the level of issue we would face.
the man was an epic failure of universal paranoia supported by willful ignorance
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
the man was an epic failure of universal paranoia supported by willful ignorance
So, yeah, you keep spouting complete nonsense with a level of arrogance rarely seen outside young students. You know exactly nothing about what you’re talking about - not that I’d know how a post-Singularity AI would work either, that’s the point - but are projecting your own mindset on them. I also suppose you unironically expect aliens to speak English and to be humans with rubber foreheads, because that’s the same level of projection at work.
 

Yesman

Not-Hostile Robot Caretaker
Author
expect aliens to speak English and to be humans with rubber foreheads, because that’s the same level of projection at work.
Damnations.
Looks like my 500+ Xeno Romance skill is useless
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
So, yeah, you keep spouting complete nonsense with a level of arrogance rarely seen outside young students. You know exactly nothing about what you’re talking about - not that I’d know how a post-Singularity AI would work either, that’s the point - but are projecting your own mindset on them. I also suppose you unironically expect aliens to speak English and to be humans with rubber foreheads, because that’s the same level of projection at work.
No I just am not willing to write off the unknown forever because I not assuming anything not me MUST be a threat, stop straw manning
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
No I just am not willing to write off the unknown forever because I not assuming anything not me MUST be a threat, stop straw manning
Given that your posts are more like ‘a post-Singularity AI will be easier to understand than a hulan being, let’s just be friends and let it tell us what we should do’, there isn’t much strawmanning in saying that you project like crazy without having a clue of the actual situation.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Given that your posts are more like ‘a post-Singularity AI will be easier to understand than a hulan being, let’s just be friends and let it tell us what we should do’, there isn’t much strawmanning in saying that you project like crazy without having a clue of the actual situation.
When you find that straw man you are addressing you have a nice time talking to him,

At no point did I suggest caution was not warranted, I have said that a patent refusal to even explore a possibly based solely on your gut feeling that any AI MUST have outright magic Super god powers while simultaneously being literal Yog-Sothoth is really fucking dumb
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
When you find that straw man you are addressing you have a nice time talking to him,

At no point did I suggest caution was not warranted, I have said that a patent refusal to even explore a possibly based solely on your gut feeling any AI will have outright magic powers and being literally Yog-Sothoth is really fucking dumb
Ah, yes, I strawman you now...
How is it a black box we can see it think? It's functionally safer then asking an other human, for pities sake if this is not simple blind dogmatic fear of other please explain
Surrender is not required, all that I'm suggesting is making a new friend and asking them what we keep doing wrong
Yeah, no. You are just saying that it’s less of a black box than a human being and that we should let ourselves be guided by it and are overreacting as soon as people start pointing out that we have no bloody clue what we’d be dealing with.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Ah, yes, I strawman you now...


Yeah, no. You are just saying that it’s less of a black box than a human being and that we should let ourselves be guided by it and are overreacting as soon as people start pointing out that we have no bloody clue what we’d be dealing with.
You are assuming a great deal it's a machine we built we can literally watch it's information process. hell we can make so it can't have thoughts we don't like,
AI=/=Singularity
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
You are assuming a great deal it's a machine we built we can literally watch it's information process. hell we can make so it can't have thoughts we don't like,
AI=/=Singularity
Ah, intelligence processes are so easy to understand and program. You remind me of the early AI researchers who literally thought in the Fifties that real language comprehension would be a job for a couple of post-docs.

In a way, you illustrate wonderfully my original rant: that people talk about technology and science without having a single clue about it, pretending it will bring nice and easy solutions to non-technological problems.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Ah, intelligence processes are so easy to understand and program. You remind me of the early AI researchers who literally thought in the Fifties that real language comprehension would be a job for a couple of post-docs.

In a way, you illustrate wonderfully my original rant: that people talk about technology and science without having a single clue about it, pretending it will bring nice and easy solutions to non-technological problems.
I'm sure I remind you of a lot of things as you continue to engage them and fail to accept we might just possibly be is some level of agreement(cautious AI dev is useful) and you are attacking a strawman to score points in a game you are playing with your self.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
I'm sure I remind you of a lot of things as you continue to engage them and fail to accept we might just possibly be is some level of agreement(cautious AI dev is useful) and you are attacking a strawman to score points in a game you are playing with your self.
Not my fault you keep simplifying and projecting your own thought processes on something fundamentally alien and refuse to see the issue with it. You don’t do a First Contact by supposing the Other is like you or that you understand them. That way lies the fuck-up.
 

Rabe

I identfy as a 9000 series intelligences
Not my fault you keep simplifying and projecting your own thought processes on something fundamentally alien and refuse to see the issue with it. You don’t do a First Contact by supposing the Other is like you or that you understand them. That way lies the fuck-up.
okay smart guy, what benefit do you gain by assuming understanding will never be possible?
 

Top