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Most controversial or unpopular political/economic/social opinions?

I'm becoming part of the camp that humanity needs some sort of hierarchy to function, not the brutal caste system of the middle ages but a hierarchy all the same...
And let me guess, you believe yourself to be part of the enlightened ones?
 
And let me guess, you believe yourself to be part of the enlightened ones?
No. By god no. I can barely keep up with the world as it is, so I would be exempt from being in a position of power in such a world. I don't have the genes, the nurture, nor the talent to be even considered as a leader. I can barely get one or two dozen kids in line for God's sake!

I would rather have AIs do all the government work anyway personally.
 
No. By god no. I can barely keep up with the world as it is, so I would be exempt from being in a position of power in such a world. I don't have the genes, the nurture, nor the talent to be even considered as a leader. I can barely get one or two dozen kids in line for God's sake!

I would rather have AIs do all the government work anyway personally.
Ah, so you want a theocracy rather than democracy?
 
Ah, so you want a theocracy rather than democracy?
I don't trust democracy as far as I can throw it (which isn't much), I hate theocracy (given their historical record but also the fact that I would be killed as well as I essentially given up on religion long ago), and at this point I'm sick and tired that people assume people are good natured outright because history has told us otherwise.

If I had my way, then I would have AI be the government.
 
I don't trust democracy as far as I can throw it (which isn't much), I hate theocracy (given their historical record but also the fact that I would be killed as well as I essentially given up on religion long ago), and at this point I'm sick and tired that people assume people are good natured outright because history has told us otherwise.

If I had my way, then I would have AI be the government.
Yes, so a theocracy. You want to place a deity in power and have faith that its grand design and unscrutable intelligence will not come to the perfectly logical conclusion - logical to a superior mind, that is - that all organic matter on Earth must be recycled into fancy paperclips.

The cult of AIs solving all our problems without effort on our part is just as bad as religious extremists who want to impose their fanaticism to society claiming it will make utopia real.
 
Yes, so a theocracy. You want to place a deity in power and have faith that its grand design and unscrutable intelligence will not come to the perfectly logical conclusion - logical to a superior mind, that is - that all organic matter on Earth must be recycled into fancy paperclips.

The cult of AIs solving all our problems without effort on our part is just as bad as religious extremists who want to impose their fanaticism to society claiming it will make utopia real.
I was thinking more of the Culture...
 
Yes, a theocracy into which technological gods have control over society and somehow solved all problems without any effort on our part. Why would a discourse make more sense if you copy-paste it by replacing 'a wizard did it' by 'an AI did it'?
Rufus, what the fuck happened to you? You were never anything like this at SB. This is very unlike you in my time I've been at SB (and to a lesser extent, SV)...
 
Rufus, what the fuck happened to you? You were never anything like this at SB. This is very unlike you in my time I've been at SB (and to a lesser extent, SV)...
What? No. I've been like that for years. I'm an engineer and a PhD in physics, which means I fucking know what problems technology can solve. And I also fucking know that you don't solve political and social problems with more technology. I've opened threads about it on SB back then, because I am baffled by the highly educated idiocy of people who spend hundreds of millions to tens of billions designing biomedical nanotech to help solve the issue of diabetes while seeing no issue with selling 64 oz sodas servings filled with corn syrup.

And I fucking loathe people picturing technology as a modern religion that brings miracles and utopia for the faithful. It is an insult to both science and religion.

You want a society worth living in and defending? Move your fucking ass rather than shifting the responsibility from suit/ties to lab jackets.
 
Rufus, what the fuck happened to you? You were never anything like this at SB. This is very unlike you in my time I've been at SB (and to a lesser extent, SV)...

This is what happened when a Frenchman who is acquainted with his country's system of rule and thought pends time in the USA getting to know the US's system of rule and thought. The scars run deep.

*hide myself before M. Canard puts me in his crosshairs*
 
This is what happened when a Frenchman who is acquainted with his country's system of rule spends time in the USA getting to know the US's system of rule. The scars run deep.

*hide myself before M. Canard puts me in his crosshairs*
Nope. This is what happens when a guy who was raised on series, comics and movies' perception of science got to actually do science for years and meet the people who do it. It changes science from a narrative trope to an actual field and philosophy.
 
What? No. I've been like that for years. I'm an engineer and a PhD in physics, which means I fucking know what problems technology can solve. And I also fucking know that you don't solve political and social problems with more technology. I've opened threads about it on SB back then, because I am baffled by the highly educated idiocy of people who spend hundreds of millions to tens of billions designing biomedical nanotech to help solve the issue of diabetes while seeing no issue with selling 64 oz sodas servings filled with corn syrup.

And I fucking loathe people picturing technology as a modern religion that brings miracles and utopia for the faithful. It is an insult to both science and religion.

You want a society worth living in and defending? Move your fucking ass rather than shifting the responsibility from suit/ties to lab jackets.
You do realize technology and AI is really the only forseeable physical thing for us to transcend the human condition and solve a lot of problems we have such as menial labor and labor shortages, right?

I don't understand your problem with the idea of people striving for utopia and transcendence through technology. Yes, there are certainly hurdles, but the optimistic part of me hopes humanity will some day see "a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness".
 
I was thinking more of the Culture...
Why don't you do yourself a favor and get your knowledge of actual AI from books written by AI Researchers? Not fucking science fiction novels.

And by AI researchers, I mean peer reviewed and cited academics, I don't mean Eliezer Yudkowsky.
 
Yes, so a theocracy. You want to place a deity in power and have faith that its grand design and unscrutable intelligence will not come to the perfectly logical conclusion - logical to a superior mind, that is - that all organic matter on Earth must be recycled into fancy paperclips.

The cult of AIs solving all our problems without effort on our part is just as bad as religious extremists who want to impose their fanaticism to society claiming it will make utopia real.
Now Rufus you must admit you're being disingenuous here. What Aaron described is just AI lead autocracy, no hokie religion nessissery.
 
Nope. This is what happens when a guy who was raised on series, comics and movies' perception of science got to actually do science for years and meet the people who do it. It changes science from a narrative trope to an actual field and philosophy.

Oh, ok.

*kinda shocked I didn't get even a single burst from the canons. It's a miracle*
 
You do realize technology and AI is really the only forseeable physical thing for us to transcend the human condition and solve a lot of problems we have such as menial labor and labor shortages, right?

I don't understand you're problem with the idea of people striving for utopia and transcendence through technology. Yes, there are certainly hurdles, but the optimistic part of me hopes humanity will some day see "a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness".
*sighs* Do you realize you are having the very same arguments that were used litterally centuries ago? When I look outside, I see a city that is beyond the wildest dreams of magic of our forefathers, solving so many physical issues of then... but the fundamental societal issues are still there unless when social development tackled them. Technology doesn't solve social issues because, spoiler alert, it is not its function. It only gives more tools for policy making in all directions.

Happiness is NOT a matter of consumption, of technology or such things. If you believe it, it's only because we have entire industries dedicated to make you feel some modicum of satisfaction through constant consumption. Hell, look at us, we are richer, more well-fed, with access to so much information, and yet we do not feel any more content. Yes, developping technology is absolutely useful and critical, but it doesn't solve by itself the problems. The Green Revolution would not have fed so many billions without the policies to implement food distribution and production, and it hasn't eliminated hunger because there are many places where the social policies are fucking up the people.
Now Rufus you must admit you're being disingenuous here. What Aaron described is just AI lead autocracy, no hokie religion nessissery.
Oh? And what is an all-powerful AI controlling our lives using reasoning and logic beyond our beings if not a deity?
 
Now Rufus you must admit you're being disingenuous here. What Aaron described is just AI lead autocracy, no hokie religion nessissery.
Well, not an autocracy in the traditional sense... far more meritocratic than the ones previous.
 
It's amusing how you suppose that an intelligence far beyond what human beings could hope to comprehend would have moral codes compatible with yours.
For all we know it might look upon how many animals we've killed and how much of the environment we've fucked up and decide that the most effective and moral solution is to remove humans and reduce the amount of suffering in the world via that.

As what's different from the perspective of a god, of a human compared to an animal?
 
It's amusing how you suppose that an intelligence far beyond what human beings could hope to comprehend would have moral codes compatible with yours.
I actually agree here. I mean... gods don't care about the well being of ants. If actual gods exist it's why I don't blame them for not caring about us or interfering in our affairs.

However, as I understand research in AI is being done to actually try to make AIs that can understand humans or at least not hurt us intentionally... because obviously that would make them more useful and not dangerous. I would still have reservations though about something with a god like intellect that might not even be sapient in the way humans understand concerning itself with humans or empathizing with us. Such things might be... eldritch... in their though processes. We could be mutually incomprehensible or they might see us as no different than random microbes.

Actual human geniuses have enough of a problem socializing.
 
For all we know it might look upon how many animals we've killed and how much of the environment we've fucked up and decide that the most effective and moral solution is to remove humans and reduce the amount of suffering in the world via that.

As what's different from the perspective of a god, of a human compared to an animal?
Yep. Or it could also decide to turn all redhead human beings into nerve-stapled sex slaves as a prank. Or maybe decide that Japan must spearhead space exploration by throwing the Japanese archipelago into space while having a small oversight about the meatbags' need for air. We have no fucking clue what its logic will be, because by definition it will be more intelligent than us. But we are supposed to believe it will just follow our very specific current set of moral principles?

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Better hope the 'optimum' ethics agree with you, otherwise, you're in for a world of pain. Right, mister 'I am a black man in 1840's Southern US'?
I actually agree here. I mean... gods don't care about the well being of ants. If actual gods exist it's why I don't blame them for not caring about us or interfering in our affairs.

However, as I understand research in AI is being done to actually try to make AIs that can understand humans or at least not hurt us intentionally... because obviously that would make them more useful and not dangerous. I would still have reservations though about something with a god like intellect that might not even be sapient in the way humans understand concerning itself with humans or empathizing with us. Such things might be... eldritch... in their though processes. We could be mutually incomprehensible or they might see us as no different than random microbes.

Actual human geniuses have enough of a problem socializing.
Amen. I also blame TV and movies for portraying higher intelligence as nothing more than higher knowledge and some magic insight as script writers are, like any human being, unable to accurately describe what is more intelligent than them.
 
Actual citation for that? Because Richard Feynman was pretty sociable.
Hmm... I think what I'm actually recalling is the link between mental illness and intelligence/creativity (physical problems are also apparently associated with intelligence). Mental illness usually leads to social problems which is probably what I'm confusing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-link-between-intelligence-and-mental-illness
https://bigthink.com/design-for-goo...ple-suffer-more-mental-and-physical-disorders
https://www.medicaldaily.com/why-smarter-people-are-more-likely-be-mentally-ill-270039
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bad-news-for-the-highly-intelligent/
 
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