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Mosque Shooting in New Zealand - Multiple confirmed casualties

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Devils Avocado

An article from the atlantic on this, disregarding the clickbaity title there is actually some substance to this piece.

Significant portions of the manifesto appear to be an elaborate troll, written to prey on mainstream media’s worst tendencies. As the journalist Robert Evans noted, “This manifesto is a trap … laid for journalists searching for the meaning behind this horrific crime. There is truth in there, and valuable clues to the shooter’s radicalization, but it is buried beneath a great deal of, for lack of a better word, ‘shitposting.’”

Shitposting is a slang term used to describe the act of posting trollish and usually ironic content designed to derail a conversation or elicit a strong reaction from people who aren’t in on the joke. Certain aspects of the shooter’s manifesto fall into this category. He includes Navy Seal Copypasta, a meme that originated on 4chan. He claims that Spyro the Dragon 3, a video game, taught him ethno-nationalism and Fortnite taught him to “floss on the corpses,” referring to a viral dance move from the game. These absurd references are meant to troll readers.

The shooter also credits the far-right personality Candace Owens with helping to “push me further and further into the belief of violence over meekness.” Though the shooter could be a genuine fan of Owens, who has been known to espouse right-leaning views on immigration and gun control, this reference may be meant to incite Owens’s critics to blame her.


That doesn’t mean the racism expressed throughout the 74-page manifesto isn’t genuine. But the complexities of the crime are still unfolding and, as the New York Times journalist Kevin Roose cautioned, “The NZ shooter’s apparent manifesto is thick with irony and meta-text and very easy to misinterpret.” Unfortunately, when journalists report on these horrific acts, the shooter’s hateful messages are sometimes amplified in the process. But the origins of that hate and the shooter’s public postings do need to examined, even when it’s difficult to take them at face value.

Mass killers have long exploited the media environments they operate within. The Zodiac killer gained notoriety by convincing newspapers to publish his cryptic messages. In 2015, a shooter in Virginia killed people during a live television broadcast.

As the internet and social media have democratized access to information, much of it spreads without necessary context. As the Verge writer Elizabeth Lopatto noted in 2015, “Our interactions with these killers were mediated by huge media gatekeepers—their manifestos were left at their homes, or sent to newspapers and TV stations. If the manifestos appeared at all, they were quoted from, rather than released in full. This is no longer the case.”
 

ScreenXSurfer

Ain't no bitch who can do it like me
How many journalist are going to jump on those ironies & shitpost in order to generate clicks and profit for their own pockets?
Are those people actually journalist or just grifters? "Subscribe to pewdiepie" my ass.

I think I'm done with this thread for now. I got work to do.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
How many journalist are going to jump on those ironies & shitpost in order to generate clicks and profit for their own pockets?
Are those people actually journalist or just grifters? "Subscribe to pewdiepie" my ass.

I think I'm done with this thread for now. I got work to do.
Welcome to the click-economy, and this asshole played perfectly into it to maximize his ‘message’. Who could have thought that the self-regulating social media system with instant content creation and publication could have had issues?
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
This is only going to get worse isn't it?
Yep. That’s ‘trolling’ for ya. Behave in increasingly more despicable ways in order to get a reaction from the others. In a way, it’s a very similar logic to terrorism when you think about it, and this fucker just pushed it to its logical conclusion.

After all, if we make an online culture in which trolls are rewarded with fame and praise, then it makes sense that more and more people will try to go above and beyond to differentiate themselves. Murder four dozen people ironically and troll the planet? That makes a lot of sense for this culture.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
Yep. That’s ‘trolling’ for ya. Behave in increasingly more despicable ways in order to get a reaction from the others. In a way, it’s a very similar logic to terrorism when you think about it, and this fucker just pushed it to its logical conclusion.

After all, if we make an online culture in which trolls are rewarded with fame and praise, then it makes sense that more and more people will try to go above and beyond to differentiate themselves. Murder four dozen people ironically and troll the planet? That makes a lot of sense for this culture.
You're a well-known troll, Rufus. Are you saying your actions are a slippery-slope to terrorism through mass murder? Gonna use your PhD for evil? I'm also troll, that doesn't follow I'm gonna gun down people for attention.
Yeh I’m banning alt-right shit from here after this. Trump supporters and conservatives are allowed, but fucking gamergate, /pol/ style shit? GTFO
Gamergate, really?
The web played a role in this, so I have no wish for that kind of thing on my site. Full stop.
I seem to recall the rules already banning Hate Speech, so what kind of "shit" do you mean?
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
You're a well-known troll, Rufus. Are you saying your actions are a slippery-slope to terrorism through mass murder? Gonna use your PhD for evil? I'm also troll, that doesn't follow I'm gonna gun down people for attention.
Am I a troll when I am very consistent about my political opinions, which are only shocking to the libertarians and corporate lovers? It shocks mostly because it is such a foreign opinion for your crowd that you perceive it as trolling.

I’m blunt but very consistent. I believe in the supremacy of the State in society, that corporations should be kept under close watch to not gain undue political power, that freedom of speech and religion should be part of society but not above it.

That ain’t trolling, my dear. That’s being European.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
Am I a troll when I am very consistent about my political opinions,
You are a troll when you engage in deliberately provocative behaviour for shits and giggles, unirregardless of "consistent political opinions". I consistently use the word "unirregardless" as a form of trolling utterly divorced from politics. Guess what? Still provocative behaviour for shits & giggles, and it isn't going to end up with me gunning down a library ten years down the road if I keep using that word.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
You are a troll when you engage in deliberately provocative behaviour for shits and giggles, unirregardless of "consistent political opinions". I consistently use the word "unirregardless" as a form of trolling utterly divorced from politics. Guess what? Still provocative behaviour for shits & giggles, and it isn't going to end up with me gunning down a library ten years down the road if I keep using that word.
You ain't a troll. You're an asshole. Your political opinions, as fucked-up as they are to me, are actually your own. They have some justification I can understand, even if I will not agree with their conclusions. That means I can talk with you, because there is some logic, you overall care about the content of the message rather than the form, which is why we could have constructive discussions IRL and also why, to the surprise of many fellow Europeans, I hold you in higher regard than other "US conservatives". Hell, when I engage in provocative behaviour, it's with people who are perfectly aware of the significance, who know the underlying meaning of what I write: when I accuse Aaron Fox of being part of Active Measures and everything, I do so knowing that he's been roughly as active as I was on Whitehall at the same time, that he knows pretty well my opinions about the stuff.

Do not get confused between witty remarks and actual trolling. As for your use of unirregardless, well, what is surprising about it, you are just pissing on the mangled corpse of the dead horse language that is English. :p
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
You ain't a troll. You're an asshole. Your political opinions, as fucked-up as they are to me, are actually your own. They have some justification I can understand, even if I will not agree with their conclusions. That means I can talk with you, because there is some logic, you overall care about the content of the message rather than the form, which is why we could have constructive discussions IRL and also why, to the surprise of many fellow Europeans, I hold you in higher regard than other "US conservatives". Hell, when I engage in provocative behaviour, it's with people who are perfectly aware of the significance, who know the underlying meaning of what I write: when I accuse Aaron Fox of being part of Active Measures and everything, I do so knowing that he's been roughly as active as I was on Whitehall at the same time, that he knows pretty well my opinions about the stuff.

Do not get confused between witty remarks and actual trolling. As for your use of unirregardless, well, what is surprising about it, you are just pissing on the mangled corpse of the dead horse language that is English. :p
Define "trolling", please. Like, when you use the word "trolling" what do you mean?
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Define "trolling", please. Like, when you use the word "trolling" what do you mean?
People deliberately going for as offensive and shocking nonsense as possible (offensive, shocking and nonsense being tuned to the public of choice, of course) in order to make them eagerly react in a strong way rather than participating in, say, a double or triple level conversation with acquaintances.

The latter case would be two best buds throwing vicious insults at each other. This isn't trolling, this is an absolutely classic social relation pattern which is reharsed, with Mr. Asshole and Mr. Fatass knowing very well that they aren't going to hurt each other by doing so. It will make passerbys' eyebrows raise but the pattern will soon be identified by everyone as friendly jabbing.
The former case would be someone barging on unannounced as Hitler or a SS guard to a meeting of Auschwitz survivors. Just for the pleasure of fucking with them, even though they don't care about nazism (or say they don't when the German polizei comes with the batons out and wondering which hole to aim). The WBC pickets burials with insulting stuff in hope of getting assaulted and sue the grievers. This is trolling.
 

Lordvile

Member
Don't put petrol on the fire and stay on topic please.
I hope they un person these idiots.
They don't deserve the effort needed to track them down.
They just went on a rampage against a minority because they felt like it.
Stuff like this is grounds for war right there.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Pretty much. We just operate under different definitions of trolling, there was some miscommunication because of that.

Though I still don't feel trolling as you define it is a pipeline to terrorism.
When your goal is first and foremost to shock, it is the ultimate in escalation, by definition, as terrorism is literally the act of doing an act so vile as to induce extreme reactions caused by the terror. Usually, it is for political purposes, but trolling is self-justified.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
When your goal is first and foremost to shock, it is the ultimate in escalation, by definition, as terrorism is literally the act of doing an act so vile as to induce extreme reactions caused by the terror. Usually, it is for political purposes, but trolling is self-justified.
That's like saying fapping to porn leads to rape. After all, the goal of both is singularly to get yourself off, and the more porn you watch the more desensitized to it you become, needing more extreme content to get off.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
That's like saying fapping to porn leads to rape. After all, the goal of both is singularly to get yourself off, and the more porn you watch the more desensitized to it you become, needing more extreme content to get off.
No, but having a sub-culture that dehumanizes women and turn them into objects of gratification does encourage rape. Emphasis on sub-culture, AKA some pretty dark corners of the net and not the SJW's vision of everything that doesn't cater to them.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
No, but having a sub-culture that dehumanizes women and turn them into objects of gratification does encourage rape. Emphasis on sub-culture, AKA some pretty dark corners of the net and not the SJW's vision of everything that doesn't cater to them.
Yes, but that's not just "trolling -> terrorism", that's "sub-culture promotes terrorism -> terrorism". It's the difference between Medium & Message.
 

Rufus Shinra

Well-known member
Yes, but that's not just "trolling -> terrorism", that's "sub-culture promotes terrorism -> terrorism". It's the difference between Medium & Message.
When I see the "trolling" crowd go "Jews will not replace us!" with that frog logo near swatiskas, I am forced to wonder what the message is as they claim to do the whole thing "ironically". Same when they make up the whole Pizzagate affair and are happy when a guy barges in the restaurant with guns trying to find the raped kids. Same when they send death threats and rape threats on social media.

When the goal is to fuck with people, to offend and to compete at being the most annoying just for the sake of it, I ain't surprised some go the full way and find the "best" way of being nuisances. "Doing something ironically" ain't an excuse: at some point, it'd be better to actually take a look at this "sub-culture" and ask oneself why we don't just call them assholes and why would their behaviour should be emulated.
 

50 Icy Spear Mends Space

Well-known member
When I see the "trolling" crowd go "Jews will not replace us!" with that frog logo near swatiskas, I am forced to wonder what the message is as they claim to do the whole thing "ironically". Same when they make up the whole Pizzagate affair and are happy when a guy barges in the restaurant with guns trying to find the raped kids. Same when they send death threats and rape threats on social media.

When the goal is to fuck with people, to offend and to compete at being the most annoying just for the sake of it, I ain't surprised some go the full way and find the "best" way of being nuisances. "Doing something ironically" ain't an excuse: at some point, it'd be better to actually take a look at this "sub-culture" and ask oneself why we don't just call them assholes and why would their behaviour should be emulated.
I'm still not gonna turn into a communist:

Or go shoot up a mosque because I enjoy "Deus Vult!" memes.

When I see the "trolling" crowd go "Jews will not replace us!" with that frog logo near swatiskas, I am forced to wonder what the message is as they claim to do the whole thing "ironically". Same when they make up the whole Pizzagate affair and are happy when a guy barges in the restaurant with guns trying to find the raped kids. Same when they send death threats and rape threats on social media.

When the goal is to fuck with people, to offend and to compete at being the most annoying just for the sake of it, I ain't surprised some go the full way and find the "best" way of being nuisances. "Doing something ironically" ain't an excuse: at some point, it'd be better to actually take a look at this "sub-culture" and ask oneself why we don't just call them assholes and why would their behaviour should be emulated.
Assholes have existed since forever, if memes & trolling were so good at radicalization, the US would be in the middle of a Communist-Fascist Civil War fought by different flavors of Furries & Weebs.
 

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