Like it or not, the rules-based order is no more

[IndyFront]

Like it or not, the rules-based order is no more

In Trump's world, it does little good to use the language of treaties or rules or laws. For Denmark and others to get their way, they'll have to speak the language of power.
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Mette Frederiksen acknowledged that the U.S. has a "big interest" in Greenland. | Maja Hitij/Getty Images
From Across the Pond
February 5, 2025 4:00 am CET
By Ivo Daalder
Ivo Daalder, former U.S. ambassador to NATO, is CEO of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and host of the weekly podcast "World Review with Ivo Daalder." He writes POLITICO's Across the Pond column.
A few weeks ago, when Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen spoke with soon-to-be U.S. President Donald Trump about his insistence on making Greenland part of America, the phone call didn't go well.
She understood America's defense concerns, but Greenland wasn't for sale, she said. Trump was having none of it.

The call between these two equally obdurate leaders not only revealed a clash of interests but a clash of realities: Frederiksen's reality is the rules-based order, a world where nations are expected to abide by treaties, rules and norms. Whereas Trump's reality is the world of power politics, where the strong do as they will and the weak — even allied nations — do as they must.

Until that phone call, most had dismissed Trump's musings about Greenland (and the Panama Canal) as bluster and tough talk meant to set the stage for negotiations. No one took the idea of the U.S. seizing the territory of an ally by force seriously.

But that was a big mistake. This time around, Trump is serious, and he's no longer surrounded by his former aides whose job it was to steer him away from crazy ideas. Rather, his current cadre is a team of loyalists, who see it as their job to implement whatever their leader wants — and what he wants is Greenland.

While I still generally agree that a war between two NATO countries remains a remote possibility, I must concede that the U.S. and Denmark are now enemies. And Trump's probably going to make the U.S. a looot of enemies before his term is done.

 

[William_F]

All of this already shows how much Trump is stupid.

 

[IndyFront]

Man he's really not letting this go

Trump says Denmark will ‘come along’ on Greenland sale

President Trump said Denmark will “come along” on the potential sale of Greenland and emphasized the U.S. and others need the Arctic island to fortify international security in the region. “Greenland is a wonderful place. We need fair, international security, and I am sure that Denmark will come...

www.aol.com

 

[William_F]

It seems that Trump just cannot stop being so stupid.

 

[Scottty]

If a few public statements by one politician can demolish the "rules based order", then it was never that strong or real to begin with.

Instead of calling him stupid, try seeing Trump as the little child who does not understand that he's supposed to be pretending to see the emperor's magnificent clothes, like everyone else.

 

[Scottty]

Meanwhile, international politics really runs on rules that nice people prefer to pretend not to see...

 

[William_F]

The rules-based international order if I still can call it that has been reduced to a joke.

 

[IndyFront]

The rules-based international order if I still can call it that has been reduced to a joke.

Biden and the Democrats are primarily responsible for that due to their Israel Worship Syndrome and essentially declaring war on the entire UN in the name of Israel's right to cluster-bombard Palestinian toddlers. Makes Trump's proposal to buy Gaza and turn it into real estate look tame by comparison imho

 

[Kevin Vacit]

Biden and the Democrats are primarily responsible for that due to their Israel Worship Syndrome and essentially declaring war on the entire UN in the name of Israel's right to cluster-bombard Palestinian toddlers. Makes Trump's proposal to buy Gaza and turn it into real estate look tame by comparison imho

The first part, I disagree with.

The second part suggests that you need to take your meds.

 

[William_F]

The first part, I disagree with.

The second part suggests that you need to take your meds.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

 

[Scottty]

There's a grain of truth there - that America is perceived by much of the rest of the world as being totally on Israel's side.

 

[IndyFront]

The first part, I disagree with.

The second part suggests that you need to take your meds.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

OK libtards

 

[William_F]

I do object to being called a libtard on the grounds that I'm a Brazilian living in Brazil and not a American living in the United States.

 

[IndyFront]

I do object to being called a libtard on the grounds that I'm a Brazilian living in Brazil and not a American living in the United States.

Then don't insult me by claiming I came off my meds. Fair is fair

 

[Rufus Shinra]

I do object to being called a libtard on the grounds that I'm a Brazilian living in Brazil and not a American living in the United States.

IndyFront tends to not realise that the world isn't working by the US political rules.

 

[Scottty]

I do object to being called a libtard on the grounds that I'm a Brazilian living in Brazil and not a American living in the United States.

Well, you're relatively new here, and IndyFront could not reasonably be expected to know where you live before you told us.

In terms of the Brazilian political spectrum, where would you place yourself?

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Well, you're relatively new here, and IndyFront could not reasonably be expected to know where you live before you told us.

It's more like, the vast if not overwhelming majority of people here are not from the Colonies, so assuming one is doesn't make much sense.

 

[Scottty]

It's more like, the vast if not overwhelming majority of people here are not from the Colonies, so assuming one is doesn't make much sense.

Americans thinking that they are the world.. "We are the world! We are the children!"... is a deeply-ingrained cultural thing.

But we are jumping over some assumptions here. When an American calls someone a "libtard", is he accusing that person of being something that only an American can actually be?

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Americans thinking that they are the world.. "We are the world! We are the children!"... is a deeply-ingrained cultural thing.

But we are jumping over some assumptions here. When an American calls someone a "libtard", is he accusing that person of being something that only an American can actually be?

Ask a Colonial what they mean precisely when they say 'liberal', and you'll more often than not get an answer that matches US political discourses without having any clue about how far from these political discourses are in civilised countries.

 

[Scottty]

Ask a Colonial what they mean precisely when they say 'liberal', and you'll more often than not get an answer that matches US political discourses without having any clue about how far from these political discourses are in civilised countries.

Oh yes. "Liberal" once had a clear meaning, at least over here. The modern-day American usage of it... well to quote CS Lewis' Screwtape: "their language is all smudge and blur". It's become a word that one cannot use with any reasonable expectation that what one means is what a hearer will understand.

Instead of asking for a definition, a better approach might be to ask a selection of Americans to describe a "liberal".

 

[William_F]

Well, you're relatively new here, and IndyFront could not reasonably be expected to know where you live before you told us.

In terms of the Brazilian political spectrum, where would you place yourself?

In terms of Brazilian politics I'm a moderate right-winger.

 

[IndyFront]

In terms of Brazilian politics I'm a moderate right-winger.

The moderate right is DEFINITELY at least liberal-adjacent. I'd use an American example of this but you and Rufus will probably just dismiss it as "too American centric" (because Americans are the only people on the entire planet not allowed to see the world through the lens of their homeland apparently)

 

[Marek_Gutkowski]

Looking at US political split I feel like a Jew watching two Christians fighting.
Every time someone tries to explain the difference between the two I understand even less.


Its like Football hooligans, everybody knows logically it is just a game. Yet it is always "we god, they evil"

 

[Scottty]

The moderate right is DEFINITELY at least liberal-adjacent. I'd use an American example of this but you and Rufus will probably just dismiss it as "too American centric" (because Americans are the only people on the entire planet not allowed to see the world through the lens of their homeland apparently)

Dude.. anyone is free to see the whole world through the lens of their homeland if they wish to... it's just that what they see won't be all that accurate.

But "right" and "left" definitely mean different things in different countries, at different times in history. Sometimes it means where you stand on just one question, with virtually everything else being waved away as unimportant.

 

[IndyFront]

Dude.. anyone is free to see the whole world through the lens of their homeland if they wish to... it's just that what they see won't be all that accurate.

But "right" and "left" definitely mean different things in different countries, at different times in history. Sometimes it means where you stand on just one question, with virtually everything else being waved away as unimportant.

Right and left and liberal and conservative are two different things, also way to join in on the America hate bandwagon, real mature