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Does every single villain from fiction need to be complex and sympathetic?

Sailorpizza

Well-known member
#1
I'm wondering ever since many people always hyped up about MCU Loki,Snape from harry potter,Sephiroth from FF7,Mewtwo,Itachi,Darth Vader,Harley Quinn and many more to count for being so relatable,complex and sympathetic.

but does it really matter for any villain at being complex and sympathetic against the heroes in many other fictional stories?
 

Sailorpizza

Well-known member
#3
Villains doesn't need to be sympathetic. Exception would be villain protagonist, which probably needs to make them sympatetic, because it is really hard to run the story with unlikable protagonist.

Villains doesn't necessarily be complex, but we should avoid to make them one dimensional.
So basically like Carnage who has fun at being evil?
 
#4
So basically like Carnage who has fun at being evil?
Pretty much, yes.
More like anime villains, typically one dimensional evil rapists with little to no variability.

Carnage is tricky. Yes, he is one dimensional psycho, but in the same time he is villain in the setting where villains are numerous and you would run out of characterization for them eventually, and due to sheer volume of them you will inevitably limit your chances for innovation as they as villains shouldn't feel interchangeable
 
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Sailorpizza

Well-known member
#5
Pretty much, yes.
More like anime villains, typically one dimensional evil rapists with little to no variability.

Carnage is tricky. Yes, he is one dimensional psycho, but in the same time he is villain in the setting where villains are numerous and you would run out of characterization for them eventually, and due to sheer volume of them you will inevitably of innovation.
I get it and thanks for bringing out amazing good points.
 

sneakykitten

Well-known member
#6
Ok, no, not every bad girl needs complex and sympathetic reasons for being bad and hurting ppls or whatevs... just... like @beast_regards says, if you make her like some one dimensional trashy hooker with a stereotypical 'broken family' and no cares in the world besides pleasing herself by hurting others? Not only is it gross, it's also not very fun to watch/read.

Ppls have complex and often deeply sad pasts leading to present day 'villainess' whatevs. A lot of bad girls are very sympathetic because they had to suffer dearly to be bad. They had to be kicked around, abandoned, have their hearts broken over and over?

So like, sure, lots of villainesses can be sympathetic and it actually makes them better, no one says you "have to" to have a good story tho. Sometimes we care more about the pretty heroine than the equally pretty but trashy girls she 'fights,' 'cause like, who wanna focus all their times on relating to an evil girl? It's kinda twisted the way some ppls make non-sympathetic villainesses, which is why I try to empathize with how they became so messed up.

And it's never pretty so making a sympathetic villainess can be difficult or whatevs?
 
#7
Villains can be legitimate psychopaths, suffering from some other mental illness, or be simple brutes uncapable of complex thoughts. However "he (or she) is crazy" shouldn't be a default go-to explanation for villain (or villainess) motive, it wouldn't make compelling story in most cases.
 

sneakykitten

Well-known member
#8
why not? being crazy isn't simple and it's not even funny sooo like... why do ppls treat ppls in both real life and pop culture whatevs, and even supposedly 'sympathetic social justice fiction', who suffer from legit illnesses that affect more than just ur brainz lol that they are the new hot topic to trivialize? its kinda gross how ppls like read one wiki page and then they decide being crazy makes u not a person deserving of being cared about by an... audience or anyone really... b/c non-disabled ppls are wayy more 'fascinating' or whatever?
 

IndyFront

Speaks in Calabi–Yau manifolds
#9
I like the Demon/Cat from Disenchantment, despite him being a completely unsympathetic little prick yet adorable and snugly.
 
#12
No in a way it gets boring since they end up as anti heroes due to popularity because of fans. I just want me a mugger who beats up employees to steal their hard earned cas before running away.

We need Robber solidarity.
Can we have Robber Unions or whatevs? To make sure thieves are not being mistreated when they steal others' jewelry to feed their own survival. It's just discrimination against Robbers, anyone feeling that?
 
#13
Dio Brando, Jojo's Bizzare Adventure.

Look I could go into a long detailed explanation how each villian, or more properly put each antagonist, needs to be a worthy obstacle for the protagonist to overcome, and so in personality is only required to conflict with the protagonist for some reason.

But honestly, Dio 'I have mothers eat their own babies' Brando.
 
#14
Ah ha. How specific? Like is that a fantasy of yours~?

Making a villain into someone who forces mothers to eat children is not a good antagonist, it's just fetishizing violence against girls, and if all he does is really gross shit 24/7 he's not compelling he's totally boring. A good villainess would be someone who is an actual person, not a thug who just tells other peoples to terrible garbages constantly that is not only one dimensional it's not even how bad peoples work. I feel like I don't need to explain how one-dimensional rapist thugs are not fun to read about unless you got secrets you probably shouldn't share like that in public.

I'm Unwatching this thread I'm grossed out.
 

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