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Debate on Hebephilia, Anatomy, Citations and Authoritative sources

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Celene

Goddess of Foot Rubs and Confectionery
Council
#1
I got in a little debate with someone here. And it went a little something like this.

Essentially, I put forward the positive claim that Hebephilia is not directly comparable with pedophilia, simply because Hebaphiliacs are likely going to at least somewhat be attracted to features on children the ages of 11-14 that humans are mostly coded to and societally find attractive.

In other words it is totally possible for children of this age to develop breasts, muscles, shoulders and hips. While I don't necesarilly condone any behaviours towards people this age, I find the attraction much much more understandable then pedophillia, on a biological and societal level.

it's certainly possible at younger ages, but again it's fairly obvious that these features would occur more numerously during puberty rather then before it.

Now I was asked to provide citations for my claims. My claims being "Hebephelia is not directly comparable to pedophilia" And things like "Breasts are something that humans find attractive" as well as "Sexual features will be more common with people going through puberty"

I believe while nuanced these claims are essentially based on easily observable and readily proven common sense facts. And that a call for citation specifically for a longform study concerning these as proof is an appeal to authority fallacy that only really muddles the water and delay a concession.

Of course I could find studies. I don't believe it is necessary for such basic stuff.
 

ScreenXSurfer

Fetcher, Please!
#2
Ofc Hebe =/= Pedo, but in 2018 you're gonna have someone roll their eyes, make a post about "semantics" and call you a pedo anyway.

Regardless what's the larger debate here? That those two things are just different? Is there a cultural norm that we should rethink because of this? Perhaps making it so a newly turned 18 y/o can't be tried for sexual assault because they're in an active relationship with their 17 y/o or 16 y/o partner. Or is that an evil crime?
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
#3
A child is a child, period. Doesnt matter if there going through puberty or not. If your a grown ass man and want to fuck a minor, your a sick piece of shit, regardless on any nuanced Hebephila crap.
 

Horton

Administrator
Administrator
#6
Ofc Hebe =/= Pedo, but in 2018 you're gonna have someone roll their eyes, make a post about "semantics" and call you a pedo anyway.

Regardless what's the larger debate here? That those two things are just different? Is there a cultural norm that we should rethink because of this? Perhaps making it so a newly turned 18 y/o can't be tried for sexual assault because they're in an active relationship with their 17 y/o or 16 y/o partner. Or is that an evil crime?
That's Ephebophilia, Hebephilia is kids 11-14
 

Sarcobite

THE DONALD TRUMP PROTECTS!!!!!
#9
Yehhhh. Ephebophilia is understandable, see all that 18 year old porn you get, but Hebephilia isn't normal, no adult should find 11-14 year olds hot.

And if they act on it they deserve being hanged by the neck until they are dead.
Fixed that for you.
 
#10
Yehhhh. Ephebophilia is understandable, see all that 18 year old porn you get, but Hebephilia isn't normal, no adult should find 11-14 year olds hot.
Eh, it's there with moderate Loli for "fetishes mostly built on what's normal, but considered wrong because of one or two details of the situation". Pretty much exactly with moderate Loli, in fact, as they're basically all the same functions gone wrong in the same ways, it's that one has the added mitigating factor of dehumanizing to break the associations away from social standards.

Hell, Ephebophilia actually has some grounds to be considered normal, according to evolutionary psychology, due to large chunks of human evolution occurring in scenarios where the 16-20 range was prime child-bearing age, owing to a lot of risk factors leading to early deaths. Not to mention massive infant mortality rates causing population sustainability of the evolutionarily-dominant tribal groups to require rather early childbearing, which is likely the primary reason why peak fertility is actually before full maturation.
 

IndyFront

Speaks in Calabi–Yau manifolds
#12
I feel like normalizing such a thing would be far too risky and could lead to pedos becoming more audacious and thus putting children's lives in danger. So, in my viewpoint it is something to still be shunned away despite whatever nuances. I have the same mentality towards Trump vs Clinton as I do Pedophilia vs Hebephilia: its a Terminal Cancer vs. Waking Up in A Bathtub Full of Ice Missing Both Kidneys...
 

sneakykitten

Well-known member
#13
If having sex w/kids is not good, then being attracted to eighteen year old teenagers is still bad. You grown ass men should stop lusting after your eighteen year old daughter's friends. It's creepy that men get into competitions of, "Which girl is just young enough for them to get away with having sex w/her?"

And I agree that @Celene's claims are uncontroversial in some ways ("Ppls like boobs and hips" ah ha) yet... if we never wanna have ppls forming relationships with kids that turn sexual, then adults need to be taught that even if my breasts make him horny, he shouldn't ever try to touch teenage girls.

Not condone their behaviors by telling them it's ok (Like Celene seems to be saying it's understandable, which seems to make it kinda ok?) yet they can never ever act on it or else they should be dead (Sarcobite being nasty and not conducive to solving the problem of pedophiles). I don't feel safe around ppls attracted to some stuffs either, I still don't go around advocating to kill them, @Sarcobite please cut that shit out. It looks gross on you.

Um, I was kinda mixing two viewpoints, rephrase: We shouldn't set up a system where the only choices are no sex ever or death. No sex with kids. Retrain the person to have healthy attractions.

On a lighter note: Celene, I totally agree that some things just don't need cites to be more valid. Nerdy dudes need to quit begging a girl for citations everytime she says something obvious.
 
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Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
#14
That bratty girl on doctor phil who glorified black gang culture and that though she was hardcore was in the news a lot after that and though she was 13 i found her arousing in those revealing cloths (that Id never let my daughter wear) with her developed breasts and figure. Her personality was a massive turn off and I'd sooner give her a talking to about what she wants out of life and how she needs to find something to strive for and stop acting like being a diva is a good thing, sooner then I'd ever consider being sexual with her, but I don't see how if an adult mentally mature woman who I'm compatible with ended up in that body I'd be though of poorly for becoming romantically involved with her.

Child molestation is bad because the molester is taking advantage of a youth who doesn't understand what's happening and ergo can't consent even if they said yes or whatever, not because of how they look.

Pedophiles are disturbing because they're not attracted to developped adults, but instead undeveloped children and will most likely seek them out as sexual partners.

Humans physically mature at different rates so will not always look their age. I think we can agree though that taking advantage of the naive and those impaired relative to yourself isn't ok and you should only partake in sexual intercourse with your consenting peers.
 
#15
Child molestation is bad because the molester is taking advantage of a youth who doesn't understand what's happening and ergo can't consent even if they said yes or whatever, not because of how they look.

Pedophiles are disturbing because they're not attracted to developped adults, but instead undeveloped children and will most likely seek them out as sexual partners.

Humans physically mature at different rates so will not always look their age. I think we can agree though that taking advantage of the naive and those impaired relative to yourself isn't ok and you should only partake in sexual intercourse with your consenting peers.
Um, u just admitted to being attracted to a teen girl, because of how she looks... and it's not about how she looks? Of course still 'no thx' on sex w/adults, when I was younger very much older men kinda made me do sexual RPs that messed up my life forever.

Still, please cut out your fetishizing and bragging about lusting after a 'bratty girl who glorifies 'black gang culture'' by whining that her clothes are not good enough for your daughter yet you still wanna have sex w/her kinda. It's gross, right?

And no one said that hebephlilia or pedophilia were actually ok so you're kinda lecturing because we all know why lusting after 13 year old girls, like u kinda did, is bad. Thank you. ^_^
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
#16
Um, u just admitted to being attracted to a teen girl, because of how she looks... and it's not about how she looks?
That would be correct yes.


Of course still 'no thx' on sex w/adults,
I have no idea what you mean by this sentence fragment.


when I was younger very much older men kinda made me do sexual RPs that messed up my life forever.
I'm sorry to hear that and as I said they shouldn't of done that.


Still, please cut out your fetishizing
I'm not fetishizing.


I'm not bragging.


I'm not lusting after.


a 'bratty girl who glorifies 'black gang culture
I don't see a reason as to why you'd include this unless you're trying to defend this girls behavior. The behavior that got national media coverage becouse of how horrible it was.

I'm not whining.


her clothes are not good enough for your daughter
Her cloths are far too revealing for my daughter that's the issue.


yet you still wanna have sex w/her kinda
I said was aroused by her appearance, and explained several reasons why I would not want to have sex with her.


What you're describing does sound gross, but it is in no way what I actually said.


And no one said that hebephlilia or pedophilia were actually ok
Well it's a good thing I'm neither.


so you're kinda lecturing
I'm not lecturing.


because we all know why lusting after 13 year old girls, like u kinda did, is bad.
I'm not lusting after any 13 year old girls.


The passive aggressiveness is unessiserally and in bad taste Kitten.
 
#17
No, you admitted to being sexually attracted to a teen girl, That is in bad taste. It was unnecessary unless you were writing a porn story for us about your intergenerational sandwich fantasy with a young girl.

I have no idea what you mean by this sentence fragment.
She don't wanna have sex w/u either.

I'm sorry to hear that and as I said they shouldn't of done that.
Empty sorries that don't change a thing~ Thank you, I feel a lot better meow.

That bratty girl on doctor phil who glorified black gang culture and that though she was hardcore was in the news a lot after that and though she was 13 i found her arousing in those revealing cloths
Yes u are.

I'm not lusting after any 13 year old girls.
Yes u are, I quoted where u said it.

The passive aggressiveness is unessiserally and in bad taste Kitten.
That was a genuine thank you like all of my thank yous are.

I can see I'm not wanted here so I'ma bounce again. Bye bye.
 

Lord Inquisitor Adornable

The Community Outreach Mod
Moderator
#18
No, you admitted to being sexually attracted to a teen girl, That is in bad taste
Debate on Hebephilia is literally the first three words of the thread title kitten, and I'm using it as an example to support my argument.


. It was unnecessary unless you were writing a porn story for us about your intergenerational sandwich fantasy with a young girl.
Are you even reading my posts? I don't think I could of explained things in a more clinical non sexual way, and outright pornography involving annunderage girl is against the site rules so that would go beyond being in bad taste.


She don't wanna have sex w/u either.
What!?


Empty sorries that don't change a thing~ Thank you, I feel a lot better meow.
I don't understand what you're typing here kitten.


I don't see how that's fetishizing would you like to site a definition?


Yes u are, I quoted where u said it.
I don't know her name, didn't remember the meme she's famous for when I typed that and have had absolutely no contact with her or sought out any thing relating to her. It is literally impossible for me to be lusting after her. I don't think you know what that word means Kitten.


That was a genuine thank you like all of my thank yous are.
What are you thanking me for then? You're accusing me of trying pursuing sexual relations with a 13 year old girl Kitten.


I can see I'm not wanted here so I'ma bounce again. Bye bye.
You're more then welcome to stay and debate me civilly Kitten.
 
#19
Debate on Hebephilia is literally the first three words of the thread title kitten, and I'm using it as an example to support my argument.
So you are attracted to teen girls? Which is it?

Young girls lusted after by older men are typically scared not aroused by them.

You're more then welcome to stay and debate me civilly Kitten.
I'm not really welcome anywhere on the website, am I? Except on my lonely profile and in PMs where ppls keep leaving.
 

V4Guss

Well-known member
#20
Eh... as far as hebephilia goes (and I suppose pedophilia), I don't really get the problem with written or drawn fiction. Hell, several countries have ruled or made laws that basically state that drawn or written fiction of the subject isn't illegal or worth spending resources on due to no actual minors being harmed. It's treated something like guro manga/art, yeah it's grotesque or disturbing to most people, but since it's fictional and no one is actually being harmed it's seen as just a thing that a subset of perverts enjoy without causing harm to real people. Personally I think such things would give people with those interests an outlet so they don't harm actual people and making an argument that these materials are harmful would come off as similar to the same argument that violent or sexual TV and video games are harmful which hasn't really been proven.

In the US loli and shota is in a weird sort of legal grey area where it does not normally get pursued or prosecuted (note there are in fact rulings in the US that give you the right to possess and view obscene and vulgar material as well as privacy to it which is part of why this is in a grey area when added to other rulings that written and drawn work fall under the First Amendment's Freedom of Speech clause). It's officially legal in Japan. A few European countries have also enacted laws or rulings that pornographic fictional materials of this is not worth prosecuting under the logic I mentioned earlier.

Personally I have the opinion that drawn and written fictional material shouldn't be prosecuted and that it is essentially harmless.
 
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