What's new
Frozen In Carbonite

Welcome to FIC! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

American Electoral Reform

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Automatic voter registration (AVR), vote-by-mail, ranked-choice voting, ect. This is a thread about the on-going pursuit to improve the elections in the United States of America. Making voting fair, inclusive, and easy for the American people.


Mass. governor signs automatic voter registration bill into law
Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker (R) signed into law Thursday a bill that would automatically register state residents to vote when they make transactions at the state's Registry of Motor Vehicles (RMV) or through the state Medicaid program, MassHealth.

The office of the secretary of the Commonwealth tweeted Thursday that state officials would begin making preparations immediately for the law's provisions, which go into effect Jan. 1, 2020.
"Our office will begin preparations for automatic voter registration immediately," the office tweeted, thanking several organizations including the state's branch of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) which backed the bill.
Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker (R) has signed the automatic voter registration bill into law and it will go into effect on January 1, 2020. The bill went through 134-16 in the House and 36-0 in the Senate. Automatic voter registration allows public facilities to automatically register a qualified participant for voting.
 
Last edited:

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
The thing about this is that it doesn't cover the vulnerabilities that the 2016 elections had. As long as those holes are around, problems will continue.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
The thing about this is that it doesn't cover the vulnerabilities that the 2016 elections had. As long as those holes are around, problems will continue.
No, it doesn't cover all the problems, but it's an improvement and we should be happy about that. AVR is one of many ways to improve the elections in the United States.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
No, it doesn't cover all the problems, but it's an improvement and we should be happy about that. AVR is one of many ways to improve the elections in the United States.
Problem, in order to improve the elections means that you've got to literally rip out a lot of other things (like work-to-live mentality) in order to make it viable. Automatic voter registry is good and all but that doesn't help those who are working two jobs just to live or are otherwise screwed economically. Economics have always determined politics, and the current work enviroment has ensured that people can't vote because by doing so they screw themselves over.

That requires the gun and sword to fix sadly enough...
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Problem, in order to improve the elections means that you've got to literally rip out a lot of other things (like work-to-live mentality) in order to make it viable. Automatic voter registry is good and all but that doesn't help those who are working two jobs just to live or are otherwise screwed economically. Economics have always determined politics, and the current work enviroment has ensured that people can't vote because by doing so they screw themselves over.

That requires the gun and sword to fix sadly enough...
Every little bit helps fix problems. Perhaps AVR could help establish a 'right-to-vote' mentality among the population and pursue Election Day requirements so that everyone has the chance to vote.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Every little bit helps fix problems. Perhaps AVR could help establish a 'right-to-vote' mentality among the population and pursue Election Day requirements so that everyone has the chance to vote.
No it won't as long as 'work to live' is still in play. As long as that is in play -and removing it will require sword and gun at this point- you can't get the political capital to change how Election Day functions.

Basically, as long as business and their leaders plays their stupid, self-destructive, and horrific zero-sum game at everyone else's expense, you can't muster much of the lower classes due to shear economics.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
No it won't as long as 'work to live' is still in play. As long as that is in play -and removing it will require sword and gun at this point- you can't get the political capital to change how Election Day functions.

Basically, as long as business and their leaders plays their stupid, self-destructive, and horrific zero-sum game at everyone else's expense, you can't muster much of the lower classes due to shear economics.
You can gradually gain the necessary political capital to make the needed radical changes. Reforms like AVR helps open elections to more people and more people means an increase of potential advocates for change. Even corrupt business practices can be beaten if the enthusiasm and participation to push for reforms are strong enough.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
You can gradually gain the necessary political capital to make the needed radical changes. Reforms like AVR helps open elections to more people and more people means an increase of potential advocates for change. Even corrupt business practices can be beaten if the enthusiasm and participation to push for reforms are strong enough.
Here's the thing, while AVR helps, it doesn't change the political capital income because in the end those who have the political capital and on their side will not be elected because, surprise, they can't get the votes to get elected.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Seems like more crap for the GOP touse to rig the electoral system for 2018/20.
Here's the thing, 2020 is a census year and that means the districts will be reshuffled and reshaped before the various committees get their hands on them...
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Promote the Vote has enough signatures to make ballot, SOS determines
LANSING, MI -- The Promote the Vote ballot proposal narrowly has enough valid signatures to come before voters in November, the Secretary of State announced Friday.

The Bureau of Elections recommended that the Board of Canvassers now certify the petition. A vote of the board would put the proposal on the ballot along with a marijuana legalization initiative and a drive to form a independent redistricting commission, amongst others.

"This is great news for Michigan citizens who deserve an election system that guarantees greater access to the ballot box," said Kary Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan, one of several organizations involved with Promote the Vote. "Voters deserve these common sense reforms that will allow working families and our men and women serving overseas to have their voices heard on Election Day."
The group called Promote the Vote has gathered enough signatures for a ballot proposal that would implement no-reason absentee voting, provide military members more time to vote, let citizens register to vote anytime with proof of residency, allow straight party voting, protect secret ballots, and audits would be required for election results in Michigan. This is would be through a Constitutional amendment.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Promote the Vote has enough signatures to make ballot, SOS determines

The group called Promote the Vote has gathered enough signatures for a ballot proposal that would implement no-reason absentee voting, provide military members more time to vote, let citizens register to vote anytime with proof of residency, allow straight party voting, protect secret ballots, and audits would be required for election results in Michigan. This is would be through a Constitutional amendment.
Now this is progress of a sort. Personally I would only allow scantron voting and no other outside of US IC-authenticated ROM hardware... but we're still vulnerable in the social media department.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Now this is progress of a sort. Personally I would only allow scantron voting and no other outside of US IC-authenticated ROM hardware... but we're still vulnerable in the social media department.
To deal with the social media problem, we'll have to provide proper education to the people to be aware of not letting social media be your main source of information and encourage companies like Facebook to deal with the problem directly.

Also in Michigan...
Here’s how Michigan’s redistricting commission would work
After a lengthy legal battle, a proposal to hand over the power to draw voting district lines in Michigan from politicians to a state citizens commission will go before voters in November.

The initiative, put forward by the group Voters Not Politicians, aims to end gerrymandering in Michigan by having this commission replace the current system, in which the state political party in power generally controls the process. Over the last decade, that party has been Republicans.

Opponents of the proposal, who are often Republicans, argue the commission would give power to unelected commissioners and is really an effort to gerrymander in favor of Democrats. Supporters of the proposal, often Democrats, argue the commission would be free of partisan influence and more accountable to the public than the current process.
There is a ballot proposal that would create an independent redistricting commission, hoping to put an end to gerrymandering in the state. This has a lot of opposition from the Republicans and support from Democrats.

The states that have independent redistricting commissions are Arizona, Alaska, California, Idaho, Washington, and Montana.
 
Last edited:

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
To deal with the social media problem, we'll have to provide proper education to the people to be aware of not letting social media be your main source of information and encourage companies like Facebook to deal with the problem directly.
Problem, people are dumb and you can't force a horse to water. So you'll have to force rules to make sure this avenue is hardened or blocked off to electioneering shenanigans.
The states that have independent redistricting commissions are Arizona, Alaska, California, Idaho, Washington, and Montana.
Yeah, Montana is different than most GOP states because we're sane.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Best solution, Mandatory voting and something to fix the damn gerrymandering. Overhaul or dismiss the electoral college while you're at it.
I'm totally fine with creating an independent redistricting commission to fight gerrymandering and getting rid of the electoral college. However, I don't feel comfortable with mandatory voting. I want to make voter registration and voting itself as convenient as possible for Americans, but I want them to make the choice to vote.
 

Aaron Fox

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis
Author
Best solution, Mandatory voting and something to fix the damn gerrymandering. Overhaul or dismiss the electoral college while you're at it.
1) forcing voting is an athema to the American people and no one outside the radicalest of radicals will push for it and 2) dismissing the electoral college is the epitome of stupidity. I'll say this once, I'll say it a thousand times, the US is built upon a balance of power between high and low pop states. Mess with that balance of power and you'll not like what happens next.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
1) forcing voting is an athema to the American people and no one outside the radicalest of radicals will push for it and 2) dismissing the electoral college is the epitome of stupidity. I'll say this once, I'll say it a thousand times, the US is built upon a balance of power between high and low pop states. Mess with that balance of power and you'll not like what happens next.
Wouldn't the electoral college encourage the presidential candidate to ignore certain states because said states are considered a guaranteed victory or defeat? For example, Democrats, Hawaii; Republicans, Utah.

A national popular vote using ranked-choice voting could encourage presidential candidates to broaden their platforms and run aggressively in every corner of the country.
 

V4Guss

Well-known member
Author
Best solution, Mandatory voting and something to fix the damn gerrymandering. Overhaul or dismiss the electoral college while you're at it.
I don't think we should have mandatory voting... the option to reject our political system by not voting should be an option. In other words when it comes to voting people should have the choice to not make a choice.
I want to make voter registration and voting itself as convenient as possible for Americans, but I want them to make the choice to vote.
I think the biggest issue with getting people to vote is that a lot of people have just kind of gotten disillusioned with politics in general. This is why voter turnout is so bad I think. People don't care about voting because they don't think it matters and to a great extent they're right. A lot of politics is about money and the Republican and Democratic parties deciding who's going to get the chance to get elected in the first place. The little guy doesn't really matter.

I know I'm cynical on this, but just look at what happened with our last election to see why a lot people wouldn't care. And even before that politicians not keeping their promises or exaggerating what they're going to do is common and it's not even their fault all the time. I think a lot of people in the US have this general distrust of politics and politicians.
 

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
I think the biggest issue with getting people to vote is that a lot of people have just kind of gotten disillusioned with politics in general. This is why voter turnout is so bad I think. People don't care about voting because they don't think it matters and to a great extent they're right. A lot of politics is about money and the parties deciding who's going to get the chance to get elected in the first place. The little guy doesn't really matter.

I know I'm cynical on this, but just look at what happened with out last election to see why a lot people wouldn't care. And even before that politicians not keeping their promises or exaggerating what they're going to do is common and it's not even their fault all the time. I think a lot of people in the US have this general distrust of politics and politicians.
According to FiveThirtyEight, most American politicians keep the majority of their promises. I think the problem is that rival politicians and media put a lot of emphasis on failure instead of success along with an unhealthy demand for perfection. Also, there doesn't seem to be much encouragement for young Americans to discuss politics in their school. No discussion on serious issues like racism and voting.

Perhaps with proper electoral reforms, more Americans could become politically active.
 
Last edited:

V4Guss

Well-known member
Author
According to FiveThirtyEight, most American politicians keep their promises. I think the problem is that rival politicians and media put a lot of emphasis on failure instead of success along with an unhealthy demand for perfection. Also, there doesn't seem to be much encouragement for young Americans to discuss politics in their school. No discussion on serious issues like racism and voting.

Perhaps with proper electoral reforms, more Americans could become politically active.
Like I said I'm cynical on the subject and was basically told throughout my voting life that even if the two options (Republican and Democrat) are terrible I should pick the lesser evil. I just intentionally refuse to participate since I don't think either candidate who will win is great or even just good enough most of the time. Politics was never a serious/signifcant subject in school for me either except in a historical context or just how the system basically functioned.

In any case we do need some sort of reform... or we'll get another Trump and we really could use a reform of bipartisan system and how our electoral system works. Any other political party beyond the major two may as well be throwing away a vote usually.

I kind of think Proportional Representation would be a better system and a lot of countries do use it.
 
Last edited:

TheHappyVampire

Well-known member
Like I said I'm cynical on the subject and was basically told throughout my voting life that even if the two options (Republican and Democrat) are terrible I should pick the lesser evil. I just intentionally refuse to participate since I don't think either candidate who will win is great or even just good enough most of the time. Politics was never a serious/signifcant subject in school for me either except in a historical context or just how the system basically functioned.

In any case we do need some sort of reform... or we'll get another Trump and we really could use a reform of bipartisan system and how our electoral system works. Any other political party beyond the major two may as well be throwing away a vote usually.

I kind of think Proportional Representation would be a better system and a lot of countries do use it.
The whole "lesser evil" thing is usually a load of crap. Both major political parties in the United States are considered coalitions, filled with factions with their own goals. Not participating is just encouraging the negative political behavior. Because the young people didn't participate, old folks continue being assholes. Also, you have to acknowledge that the candidates are individuals. Every human being is different and that means different ideologies. Voters have to vote for the candidate that follows their goals the most.

I'm iffy on proportional representation. I don't really agree with granting victories to those who have not earned a majority. You potentially have bigot religious jerks like those from the Constitution Party gaining real political power. I have a preference for winner-take-all ranked-choice voting because it can encourage the candidates to broaden their platforms to appeal to voters. Becoming more civil and moderate instead of moving further and further to the left or right of the political spectrum while constantly throwing insults.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top