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2020 Democratic Party Presidential Primaries Thread

Frankly, you American Leftists also reeks the same Exceptionalism and mentally isolated from the rest of the world.


EDIT: And seems perfectly willing to take down everyone with you.

your not wrong Ive been trying to my best to remember that leftism is the international movement and Red (or black in my case) imperialism does not become good just because youa gree with it.

Currently been exposing myself to the palastinian and pakistani leftist movements and interacting somewaht with leftists in central africa.

along with doing my damndest to find the indig socialist movements as I KNOW there are some here along with in Oklahoma and Arizona but good gods is find specific hard I wish I had listened to my Aunt.

its a nasty thing to have to fix same way early socialists had to slooooowly purge anti-semitism from it because I mean what the fuck else do you think anger and the Bougie was gonna create if not a lot of anti-semitism oh and also all the eugenics yeah there was a lot of eugenics involved in socialism at the start. Like I mean a lot.

and im not kidding a literal idea was that the jews and the Bourgeois society was using bad genes on the lower class and preventing them from class consciousness and overthrowing the old order.


Its not new for us to be forced to look at the problems we have and go "yeah taht doesnt work" leftism dies when it refuses to understand that there are genuine problems it has to approach. Not just stick its fingers in its ears and Scream "Class class class class class" over and over again. Intersecionalism is still a young movement in leftism and it has many things it has to learn and grow with. it was created as a way to fix many of the issues that killed earlier leftist movements which was that it had a tendacny to be very white, very western, and ignore any problems other nations had with it. Along with ya know imperialism in the name of "liberation" theres a reason theres debates that liberation can only ever come from within not from without because it is if anything just another form of Reform from the top down.

I think in many ways we were already realizing we were entering the same pitfalls but sometimes we can only ever realize a mistake is a mistake when we fuck up royally.

tl:dr you are right and its something of a major problem that we are facing.


On the plus side the raging shitfire of breadtube is being left too its own devices so thats a plus side as it became a fandom and as we all know Stans are not capablee of nuance. as Bernie or busters have more than exemplified.
 
It's frankly like this: European Left still acts with the same White Men's Burden mentality but against anyone not sufficiently Left in their view. American Left has the same Fortress America attitude, mentally (NOT physically despite their belief) isolated from the rest of the world.

not wrong and its something we need to fix it is an international movement not a movement for the white men (id appreciate it if it wasnt as Id kinda be fucked if that were the case white mans burden Movements tend to fuck people like me over)
and we would do well to acknowledge that the movement must change if the movement is to truly be international.

European left has a lot of problems because in many ways it refuses to change and advance and well evolve with the times and progress.

on the plus the German and Dutch left are doing quite well (funny that they seem to be CONSTANTLY be the ones that have their shit together)

andthe american left well and truly does need to get it into our heads that despite what we like to think

thumb_am-not-immune-to-propaganda-when-the-trailer-for-that-45386921.png


and the City on a hill concept is very very much apart of the american left no matter what we like to think
 
not wrong and its something we need to fix it is an international movement not a movement for the white men (id appreciate it if it wasnt as Id kinda be fucked if that were the case white mans burden Movements tend to fuck people like me over)
and we would do well to acknowledge that the movement must change if the movement is to truly be international.
Not literal White Men's Burden (although there are elements), but more of the attitude of 'They're not like us (Western) Europeans, which means they must be ignorant.'
 
Not literal White Men's Burden (although there are elements), but more of the attitude of 'They're not like us (Western) Europeans, which means they must be ignorant.'

oh but there is still a quite literal white mans burden in many parts but yeah that makes more sense. occasionally lands as egg on their face.
 
Some interesting things.



Like everywhere, Trumpy is down. By a lot. He won Ohio by 8 points, and the state was not supposed to be in play as a possible battleground. A tie here is huge. Then again, he is also leading in Texas by only 5 points, so that might be an even bigger story in the making.

Second point is that Republican governor DeWine has been almost anti-Trumpy on his actions regarding the virus. Like almost every poll around, people are in favor of staying closed and dealing with this shit (pictures in context show that these supposed large rallies to re-open the economy are actually tiny groups that photograph well). Bone Spurs is taking every opportunity to dangerously push towards another spike in cases, and only his cult think it is a good idea.

The most relevant point to this thread is that there seems to be a consensus on Warren or Harris as VP. Leaning to Harris for being younger (also more replaceable since you don't want to pull senior elected officials away from Congress lest you lose committees and such). If these new battlegrounds say it is a good idea then it is probably something to be seriously considered.

The polls are showing some interesting things. Too bad that Democrats will get overly confident again and hand the election over again to a fucking idiot narcissistic sociopath.
 
Some interesting things.



Like everywhere, Trumpy is down. By a lot. He won Ohio by 8 points, and the state was not supposed to be in play as a possible battleground. A tie here is huge. Then again, he is also leading in Texas by only 5 points, so that might be an even bigger story in the making.

Second point is that Republican governor DeWine has been almost anti-Trumpy on his actions regarding the virus. Like almost every poll around, people are in favor of staying closed and dealing with this shit (pictures in context show that these supposed large rallies to re-open the economy are actually tiny groups that photograph well). Bone Spurs is taking every opportunity to dangerously push towards another spike in cases, and only his cult think it is a good idea.

The most relevant point to this thread is that there seems to be a consensus on Warren or Harris as VP. Leaning to Harris for being younger (also more replaceable since you don't want to pull senior elected officials away from Congress lest you lose committees and such). If these new battlegrounds say it is a good idea then it is probably something to be seriously considered.

The polls are showing some interesting things. Too bad that Democrats will get overly confident again and hand the election over again to a fucking idiot narcissistic sociopath.


uh you could say that. Some dems still think if you point out Trump is wrong that means you win.

which uh considering theyve been doing this since day 1 of his presidency im gonna go with nooo
 
what I mean by this is Dems salivating over the debates or were saying early in the primary "Imagine Kamala Harris Debating Trump"

heres the thing Hillary Curbchecked Donald in every fucking debate he was TERRIBLE on the stage not a single argument that came from his lips was correct.

She still lost.* (yes yes I know popular vote blah blah but unfortunately we dont live in adirect democracy so a popular vote is just kind of a consolation prize)

Hopefully Trumps continued shitshow will torpedo his chances but well dems seem really keen on learning nothing so im just gonna pray to which ever god will listen inbetween Apophis loudly cackling.
 
Well, the primary is over, barring a surprise turn of events at the convention.

So I present to you... How Trumpy Will Win 2020!
In recent days it became more evident that Amash was likely to launch a campaign for the presidency. Earlier this month, he said he was looking "closely" at a bid and two weeks ago he said in a statement that he stopped actively campaigning for his House seat in mid-February while he considered jumping into the presidential race.
...
While it is very unlikely a third-party candidate could win the presidency, a high-profile third-party contender has the potential to reshape the race. In 2016, Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, was on the ballot in every state and won a little over 3% of the national vote.

Vote-splitting towards Stein and Johnson, combines with the salty Bernie Bros that turned to Trumpy out of spite, was enough votes in the right places for Trumpy to skate by. Now it can happen again!

Salty Bros + "principled" Democrats who don't want Biden + Never-Trumpers who now get an ex-Republican to vote for = a lot of votes going in all the wrong places

It is happening, Baron LeQuack! It is happening!
 
Salty Bros + "principled" Democrats who don't want Biden + Never-Trumpers who now get an ex-Republican to vote for = a lot of votes going in all the wrong places
Something I wonder is, how many Sanders supporters are actually 'Bros'? You tend to get a very distorted view because they hog all the interactions on the Internet. So far SB, SV, AH.com Sanders supporters are all majority hardliners, at least the ones that post on political sections.

And how many Biden supporters are there? I think Ian (or Calbear) speculated that there are a lot more Biden supporters on AH.com, they just don't bother posting on Chat because the dominant (and aggressive) consensus are Sanders supporters and they don't want to get drowned. SV has a minority vocal Biden supporters, but I think there are more silent ones. And SB is dominated by Biden supporters.
 
Something I wonder is, how many Sanders supporters are actually 'Bros'? You tend to get a very distorted view because they hog all the interactions on the Internet. So far SB, SV, AH.com Sanders supporters are all majority hardliners, at least the ones that post on political sections.
2016
Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)

Political science professor Brian Schaffner of University of Massachusetts, Amherst tweeted the data on Wednesday.

Schaffner's numbers show that after a bitter Democratic primary, more than 1 in 10 of those who voted in the primaries for the very progressive Sanders ended up voting for the Republican in the general election, rather than for the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

All by themselves the Bros were enough to flip the election. According to the poll it was about 12% who wanted to watch the world burn.

2020
If former Vice President Joe Biden secures the Democratic presidential nomination, 15% of Sen. Bernie Sanders' supporters will vote for President Donald Trump's reelection, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll.

If accurate, that would represent a slightly larger defection than occurred after the bitter battle between Sanders and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2016, when 12% of Sanders voters broke for Trump in the general election.
...
Trump held a solid advantage over Biden in voter enthusiasm. Fifty-three percent of Trump's backers said they would be "very enthusiastic" to cast their votes for him, while 24% of Biden's supporters said the same for their candidate. That is the lowest for any Democratic presidential candidate in 20 years in an ABC/Post poll. Among Sanders supporters who said they back Biden in November, just 9% said they were very enthusiastic about doing so.

Add in third party spoilers and we can have another repeat, even if Trumpy's polling numbers are worse at the moment.
 
Something I wonder is, how many Sanders supporters are actually 'Bros'? You tend to get a very distorted view because they hog all the interactions on the Internet. So far SB, SV, AH.com Sanders supporters are all majority hardliners, at least the ones that post on political sections.

And how many Biden supporters are there? I think Ian (or Calbear) speculated that there are a lot more Biden supporters on AH.com, they just don't bother posting on Chat because the dominant (and aggressive) consensus are Sanders supporters and they don't want to get drowned. SV has a minority vocal Biden supporters, but I think there are more silent ones. And SB is dominated by Biden supporters.
not really they have a lot more Sanders supporters but many openly state they dont post on N&P. as the place is a bit um much.

some that pop in to say hello state that they arent happy about Sanders losing but will still be voting Biden.


most of them say that in the Biden thread where they go "can this like not be true it makes it really hard to vote for him"

2016


All by themselves the Bros were enough to flip the election. According to the poll it was about 12% who wanted to watch the world burn.

2020


Add in third party spoilers and we can have another repeat, even if Trumpy's polling numbers are worse at the moment.

how was the third party second opinion?

as in what if they were forced to vote for a major party what would they end up voting for because libertarian trend towards Republican and Green trend towards Democrat and I am curious to know if the numbers if forced to pick would it actually be enough? I know that green is a mix between people too left for Democrat and libertarians are for the people too crazy for the republicans.

but both have their outliers many libertarians are SoclibFiscCon (*vomits*) and so would still before democrats if forced to pick and PLENTY of green party voters are anti-vax and crystal healing psychos.
 
This is what Ian said about AH.com, btw:
This site was never a hotbed of radicalism, but its US membership became steadily more left leaning from 2000-2015. Around 2015 we fairly quickly moved from radical socialists not existing to having their own thread. We also got the "SJWs" right when the rest of the internet did.

One difference between this site and others is that as soon as radical socialists became active in numbers they started getting banned for being ultra-tankies, and the "SJW" contingent got hit with multiple rounds of kickings and bannings for being overly aggressive.

Also, there's the Ameripol thread, which really distorts who talks about American politics.

The reason it's distorting is because it's so fast paced that you can't really discuss anything, so it's useless for trying to communicate with people who disagree with you. All that really happens is people post chatty one-liners that put their opinion out there to get validated by other like-minded people. That attracts people who have very mainstream opinions (because they get validated a lot) but is less attractive to people who want to challenge the mainstream (because they get lost in the volume).

This pretty clearly results in Ameripol being dominated by 20something Americans who are more pro-establishment than your average 20something American. This leads to a lot of weird quirks, like how many people in that thread hate Glenn Greenwald, who is a straight up anti-establishment leftist, but instead of calling him too far left they try to classify him as libertarian, paleoconservative, or anything else that erases the entire existence of the real anti-establishment left. (A bunch of them also like to see me as more conservative than they are, when in reality I'm well to the left of them on every single issue from militarism to racism).

If it sounds like I'm annoyed with Ameripol, I am. I get far more post reports from that thread than anywhere else, often more than from the rest of Chat put together.
 
That sounds like a bit of an issue that was noted on reddit several thousand times.

before Breadtube was lost to the cause of Stan Culture and decided critique and Cancel Culture are one and the same and disappeared up their own collective(lol) assholes before going full bernie or bust.

There was discussion that a problem with leftism is there is not a single bit of brevity in aaaaany of it. that its all about theory this, theory that. it gets so bogged down people just nope out.

its also been noted in a lot of drama subreddits unless explicitly enforced as such most major subreddits that arent completely bigoted drift establishment liberal as there really isnt enough time to really explain theory there is only enough time to maybe toss out a few quippy one liners. making it a lot harder to argue a point.

Reddit actually has a major problem with this that because its much faster to post something quippy larger posts that might fully explain a point tend to die out or be so much further down the thread the mood of the thread is immensely different.

SV is an outlier as in most cases.
 
Question: How would Sanders supporters and other Leftists react if Trump promises to dissolve the Democratic Party if he wins? I mean, it is clear that they hate the Dems, but would they willing to see the USA crossing that line?
 
Question: How would Sanders supporters and other Leftists react if Trump promises to dissolve the Democratic Party if he wins? I mean, it is clear that they hate the Dems, but would they willing to see the USA crossing that line?

it really depends most sanders supporters would see it as an attack on democracy.

Tankies and accelrations would vote for him because they are fucking insane.

The really only remainder would probably still not vote for him. As much as we may hate the Dems and we do. Dont discount that for a second. Its just it would be so obviously a fascist move that im pretty sure even the most ardent of anti-dems would realize that "uh no"

maybe no I really dont pretend to understand the left anymore outside of anarchists. they've all lost their mind.
 
it really depends most sanders supporters would see it as an attack on democracy.

Tankies and accelrations would vote for him because they are fucking insane.

The really only remainder would probably still not vote for him. As much as we may hate the Dems and we do. Dont discount that for a second. Its just it would be so obviously a fascist move that im pretty sure even the most ardent of anti-dems would realize that "uh no"

maybe no I really dont pretend to understand the left anymore outside of anarchists. they've all lost their mind.
I feel that a lot of them seems to be in 'Fuck Democracy' mood or heading that way.

I mean, if you are firmly convinced that you are the majority/the future, and the only thing that prevents you from winning is the established system...
 
I still have no idea what convinced some leftists they are the majority I thought it was an accepted fact that leftism has been suppressed heavily by decades of propaganda and actual history and we need to do what we can to regain good will.

or that the majority are still pretty backwards on some issues and we still have a long road to go.

this weird idea that secretly everyone things like them just reeks of the same idea that perkalates among the alt right "everyone secretly is one of us"
 
I still have no idea what convinced some leftists they are the majority I thought it was an accepted fact that leftism has been suppressed heavily by decades of propaganda and actual history and we need to do what we can to regain good will.

or that the majority are still pretty backwards on some issues and we still have a long road to go.

this weird idea that secretly everyone things like them just reeks of the same idea that perkalates among the alt right "everyone secretly is one of us"
I think Economically Left policy is broadly popular. It's just that there are a lot of conflict over the execution of said policy, and the rest of Left-wing policies.

Because, you know, even if people agrees on economy, they don't necessarily agree on who is going to receive the benefits&not going to automatically like the other policies. That's the problem plaguing the American Labor Movement, I believe.
 
One last thing, people keep saying that Trump is a symptom, not a cause. I don't think they realize that it is a symptom, especially the untreated one, that often causes immediate death, not an underlying cause.
 
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One last thing, people keep saying that Trump is a symptom, not a cause. I don't think they realize that it is a symptom, especially the untreated one, that often causes immediate death, not an underlying cause.
true but its also just a slogan. thats supposed to say "Trump didnt come from nowhere he is everything the republicans want dont believe their lies"
 
Add in third party spoilers and we can have another repeat, even if Trumpy's polling numbers are worse at the moment.
So about the same percentage of Hillary supporters who voted for McCain in 2008?

So why are we not screaming at Hillary and her fans for that?

1) She is the star of the Democratic establishment.
2) Obama won anyway.
 
I think people are missing the point.

Politics, especially in a place where it is as intertwined with money as the United States, as mostly about access to money. Winning the election, to the DNC (or RNC), is a strictly secondary concern. It would be nice, but what is no. 1 on their agenda is preserving their own position within the Democratic Party and hence their access to money.

That is why their PR efforts have been primarily against the left wing of the Democratic Party (Sanders, Gabbard, Stein are all Russian assets!), and not the Republicans.

That has, I think, clearly been their strategy since 2016. If their primary goal was defeating Trump, they would have spent that time trying to attract independents and/or Trump voters, many of whom vote Democrat on the local level and voted for Obama at the presidential level before. Instead, they have engaged in things like Russiagate and impeachment, which everyone who isn't an MSNBC partisan knew weren't going to go anywhere and in fact didn't go anywhere. The point of that stuff was a) to damage Trump's ability to govern, not to defeat Trump (he can't engage in normal foreign policy if he knows that people are leaking his phone calls), b) to damage any threat inside the Dem Party who could possibly maybe sorta kinda be painted as a "Russian asset," and c) drum up fear and outrage among the MSNBC partisan group so that they hopefully will go out and vote in huge numbers (anyone but Trump!), so the DNC doesn't have to attract voters.

If defeating Trump was their primary goal, they've sure gone about it in a weird way.

Hopefully Trumps continued shitshow will torpedo his chances but well dems seem really keen on learning nothing so im just gonna pray to which ever god will listen inbetween Apophis loudly cackling.

What shitshow? From the POV of the statistically average American, things were going pretty well before coronavirus showed up.
 
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The point of that stuff was a) to damage Trump's ability to govern, not to defeat Trump (he can't engage in normal foreign policy if he knows that people are leaking his phone calls)
Aww, poor Donald, he cannot engage in normal foreign policy because of the Dems' conspiracy! Without them, he'd have gotten four Nobel Peace Prizes already.
 
So about the same percentage of Hillary supporters who voted for McCain in 2008?

So why are we not screaming at Hillary and her fans for that?

1) She is the star of the Democratic establishment.
2) Obama won anyway.
... and 3) they weren't democrats in the first place. Obama won via the 'Obama Republicans' -aka the Rust Belt republicans that were fed up (at the time) of the GOP's song and dance- pure and simple, and they defected after the Obama administration ended.
 
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